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Raleigh
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That's pretty funny.
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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Well I can see LaRusso is bringing his usual amount of blinding ignorance to yet another thread...
Raleigh -
It's a little strange, but I can accept it - assuming the tank unit is an early tank, they did not have a very high speed at all - think early WW2 model. A Cavalry unit could indeed outrun that tank unit.
What's truly inane however is that mechanized infantry are just a two move unit. That's nuts. Of course, I fixed that, but left the tank alone at 2, considering the modern armor gets a three move.
Venger
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UncleBeef
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I don't have to use my imagination- I think I can actually use history. This is all my opinions, yadda yadda...- here goes.
Speed in Civ3 is a combination of tactical speed- how fast a thing can actually move, and strategic speed, how fast an army or unit of those things can move. For example, Panzers have a move 3 not because they were really 1/3 faster than other tanks, but because Geman strategic docterine invented Blitzkrieg. With me so far? 
Anyhow, horses vs WWI tanks is no contest so I won't get into that. Vs. WWII tanks, logistically horses have a lot of advantages, mostly that they don't need fuel (other than food) and they don't get sand, grit, mud, or whatever in their mechanisms and breakdown, both of which were huge problems for all sides in WWII but esp. on the eastern front and in N. Africa.
As for top speed, I think a typical WWII tank had a top speed of 25-30 mph or so, and I think horses run as fast as that. (maybe) So therefore Cavalry = speed 3 and Tank = speed 2. Of course with Modern Armor, it's another story.. 
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Dev
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Another day, another thread infested by La "wannabe netcop" Russo's off topic drivel.
I've wondered about that myself and I think all the modern units got to few movement points, doubling the movement points for all units starting with infantry would make sense.
Mech inf need another boost to be brought at par with modern armor though.
/dev
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Dev
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At least I think, which is more than can be said about you.....
Please explain to me how modern warfare with tanks and mech inf. isn't blitzkrieg?
...
/dev
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rjpageuk
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Maybe someone should mention that cruise missiles only have 1 movement point per turn.
What is going on there?
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Dev
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
well if you have 5 movement points for a tank, you can easily bypass his first and attack a second city.
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yea that's what tanks do duh!, how do you think the germans conquered france ? I'll hint you that they didn't drive all their tanks up to the maginot line and started exchanging shots.
quote:
the whole tactics changes and the penetration of armor is much deeper. with 2 or 3 movement points it still means attacking the closest city first, with 5 or 6 you have a strategic choice that is really very deep.
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Yea and that's why any decent player/AI would fortify strong points to make it not happen, if you don't then you ask for it.
quote:
it can confuse AI (it is just a piece of code) and make capitals and valuable cities much more vulnerable to your sneak attacks.
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So you program the AI to deal with this instead of cheaping it out with low movement rates.
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given the city placement and empire size in a usual game, this provides for indecisive, non-wipeout wars in many cases, and that is good. wiping civs out really sucks. |
Wiping out civs really sucks ?
That certainly explains a lot but it doesn't explain why you're wasting time on Civ when Barbie hairdresser is more your cup of tea.....
/dev
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Hurry
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In good weather, and especially if good roads are present, Tanks (WW2 and later) have been constantly faster than Cavalry.
However, and this is the problem in Civ3; Cavalry is faster in terrain without roads. Since old and new units are mixed in Civ3 much more than anytime in real history, Tanks should be faster in Urban environments, and Cavalry faster in uninhabited territory.
In other words, different kinds of units should pay a different movement cost for different types of terrain. A simple example would be to keep Horses movement allowance at 3, and pay terrain costs as normal, but to increase the Tank´s movement to 4, but it would instead pay double for all terrain except clear and roads.
It seems obvious they didn´t do this since it would make the game more complex and hard to learn, not because it would be difficult to do (they already have prohibited terrain for some units).
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UncleBeef
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quote:
Originally posted by Dev
yea that's what tanks do duh!, how do you think the germans conquered france ? I'll hint you that they didn't drive all their tanks up to the maginot line and started exchanging shots.
/dev |
Don't forget there's no ZOC anymore- the equivelant is like the Germans driving their tanks THROUGH the line, but not quite running over any Frenchmen so they didn't get to fire back and bang they've got Paris. If you double the speed of modern armor to 6, you're asking for a lot of one-turn empire wipeouts in the modern era on standard size maps- not my idea of fun.
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurry
In good weather, and especially if good roads are present, Tanks (WW2 and later) have been constantly faster than Cavalry.
However, and this is the problem in Civ3; Cavalry is faster in terrain without roads. Since old and new units are mixed in Civ3 much more than anytime in real history, Tanks should be faster in Urban environments, and Cavalry faster in uninhabited territory.
In other words, different kinds of units should pay a different movement cost for different types of terrain. A simple example would be to keep Horses movement allowance at 3, and pay terrain costs as normal, but to increase the Tank´s movement to 4, but it would instead pay double for all terrain except clear and roads.
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I'd like the idea of reducing cavalry to two, but have them treat all terrain as roads - this allows tanks to move faster on roads but slower in uneven ground. Problem is there that as the rules are that'd let the cavalry move 6 hexes, possibly a little too much. I dunno though, the thought has some merit...
Venger
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Dev
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleBeef
Don't forget there's no ZOC anymore- the equivelant is like the Germans driving their tanks THROUGH the line, but not quite running over any Frenchmen so they didn't get to fire back and bang they've got Paris. If you double the speed of modern armor to 6, you're asking for a lot of one-turn empire wipeouts in the modern era on standard size maps- not my idea of fun. |
No, Firaxis actually dealt with this by disallowing use of enemy roads.
Surely if the empire isn't any deeper than 5(?) tiles then it deserves to be wiped in one turn.
Anyway maybe 6 moves is too much, my grieve is that the movement ratio for old/modern units is completely hosed.
Tanks aside then I'd believe that infantry would have trucks but yet they only move the same as a 5000 years old warrior.
That's just ****ed up :\
/dev
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04-12-2001 19:16
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