04-12-2001 22:50									#1
	Bombardment-failures should be experience-dependent Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Currently, bombardments and fortress-related "free shoots" fails frustratingly often - to the point that it actually destroys fun & gameplay. And worse still; it cannot be improved upon by using veteran/ elite-trained units either, it seems. My patch-upgrade suggestion is that the probability of these failures or "missed shoots", should be heavily dependent on the experience- and training-status of your units.

Probability of failures using bombardment-units:
- Using Regular units = same as now.
- Using Veteran units = half as many failures as above.
- Using Elite units = they never fail.

Probability of fortress-related "free shoots" (I have never withessed any):
- Using Regular units = same as now (or rather a little more often)
- Using Veteran units = Twice as many intercepting free shoots than above.
- Using Elite units = they always intercept.

While Im at it:

Great leader spawned probability:
PLEASE - add a percentage probability Elite -> Great leader spawn probability in the game-editor - both for militaristic and non-militaristic Civs.

	04-12-2001 23:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The one problem I see here is that artillery units are non-combat. Meaning no hit points, and therefore no experience. I really like that. I also see it as a significant enough change that will probably not happen.

With regards to the ZOC thing, it's pretty clear to me that Firaxis made a gameplay decision to make the morale reward strictly a matter of HP rather than FP. Increasing the free shot success would fly in the face of that.

	04-12-2001 23:19									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Why?

Bombardment isnt that useful anyway.

	05-12-2001 01:12									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Wrong_shui Why? Bombardment isnt that useful anyway.

Not currently, but it will be if they make some changes. Besides, if it aint useful enough, why then dismiss suggestions to boost this feature? Dont you want bombardment to be more useful?

	05-12-2001 01:19									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

How about increasing bombardment success with the types of techs you have aquired? For example, physics or computers make your bombarments more effective.

	05-12-2001 01:25									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think those are all good ideas, but I don't think elite units should allways hit. Maybe like a %90 or so chance, but not %100

	05-12-2001 01:48									#7
	Got spare money?

A "never fail" thing is IMHO never a good thing... But I'd like all this to be dependant of experience though... In reality, I would even guess that it's the main factor, close to technology that is used.

	05-12-2001 02:32									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by sophist The one problem I see here is that artillery units are non-combat. Meaning no hit points, and therefore no experience.

Hmm. Your right - I didnt think of that. Maybe they should simply reduce the failed bormbardment probability somewhat - AND have it all adjustable in the game-editor, so the player can tweak it to his own liking.

quote: With regards to the ZOC thing, it's pretty clear to me that Firaxis made a gameplay decision to make the morale reward strictly a matter of HP rather than FP. Increasing the free shot success would fly in the face of that.

Well, maybe - but then it would be better to scrap the whole idea offensive so called "free shoots" to non-coastal fortresses all together. "Free shoots" that almost never occur, are just about 100% useless. A Civ-2 style fortress-related ZOC-ability (but to certain units only; like cavalry, and so on), with increased defense-strenght, would be a much better solution.

quote: Originally posted by Frito I think those are all good ideas, but I don't think elite units should allways hit.

quote: Originally posted by Trifa A "never fail" thing is IMHO never a good thing...

OK, you guys are right. Perhaps not 100%...

	05-12-2001 15:18									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Wrong_shui Why? Bombardment isnt that useful anyway.

No! It's very useful! I conquered most of the Japanese empire. They had infantry, but I only had cavalry. The difference was artillery. Infantry might have a 10 defense and cavalry a 6 attack, but when I've got a veteran or elite unit that can retreat facing an infantry with only 1 HP in a town that grants no defensive bonus because I knocked off 9 points of population... well, you can be pretty successful. If, however, I'd just thrown cavalry at the cities, I would have created a bunch of veteran and elite units for the Japanese while wasting a bunch of my own units. You could say, well, wait for armor. Guess what? I conquered those cities a good thirty turns before armor. That's thirty more turns that I work that land, and thirty less turns that the Japanese do (as well as taking that oil away before the Japanese can even see it). Properly used, artillery can be very effective.

quote: Originally posted by Ralf Well, maybe - but then it would be better to scrap the whole idea offensive so called "free shoots" to non-coastal fortresses all together. "Free shoots" that almost never occur, are just about 100% useless. A Civ-2 style fortress-related ZOC-ability (but to certain units only; like cavalry, and so on), with increased defense-strenght, would be a much better solution.

I've actually had free shots make a difference. I've constructed a sort of Maginot Line on my eastern front (facing a couple of furious civs that just won't stop... generating elite units for me). I've got infantry and cavalry and artillry in forts in hills and mountains . The cavalry take a free shot at units who move along the fortress. Usually that's good for a hit point or so. Then I use the artillery to soften up these units and take them out with the cavalry. Since there's grassland/plains in front of the forts, I take them back and then bring the cavalry right back into the safety of the fortress. It's beautiful. Granted, artillery do most of the work, but a more powerful free shot would make this even more skewed in my favor.

	05-12-2001 15:36									#10
	Re: Bombardment-failures should be experience-dependent Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ralf PLEASE - add a percentage probability Elite -> Great leader spawn probability in the game-editor - both for militaristic and non-militaristic Civs.

spot on. i'd like to see more war academies before modern times....
getting a great leader is a powerful incentive to go to war...