05-12-2001 13:52									#1
	Archipelago is no fun / AI can crosses oceans without tech, or wonder Full PM-box? Change here!

Has anyone found a good strategy for dealing with the AI's magical ability to cross oceans (sans Lighthouse) on archipelago maps?

I think the map generation in Civ 3 is much better than in previous civs or AC games. Yet every time I try out the archipelago maps I find myself hampered by the fact that by the time I'm able to cross the oceans, the AI has already done so, contacted all the other civs, and exploited that advantage (trading for tech, resources, colonization, ect). They haven't built the lighthouse, yet all the AI civs are out there truck'n around in galleys over deep ocean.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so, has anyone found a work around?

	05-12-2001 15:47									#2
	Got spare money?

The only thing I can think of to counter this is to trade for communications with the Civs that you haven't met with the Civs that you have met. You would have to keep calling them up to see who they have met.

	05-12-2001 20:25									#3
	Re: Archipelago is no fun / AI can crosses oceans without tech, or wonder Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by duxup Has anyone found a good strategy for dealing with the AI's magical ability to cross oceans (sans Lighthouse) on archipelago maps?

I must disagree here. I usually play on totally random maps and in my current game the map consisted of five continents with two civs on each. I was the first to get out and make contact, because I sacrified a few galleys and it was worth it. The other civilizations didn't make contact for a long time and during that time they had to go through me (I refused to sell communications).
The first civ that managed to arrive at my continent was Romans, AFTER they have build the Lighthouse.

So in my opinion it works rather well.

	06-12-2001 00:08									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I haven't noticed any "magical" ability either. On most archipelago maps there is a lot of coastal area, often connecting the islands. The AI seems to find these very readily.

	06-12-2001 05:47									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I grabbed the lighthouse wonder this game, and the AI (whose still sailing in galleys and caravels) dont go anywhere near the oceans. So it works IMO. Once the patch is in, im expecting the AI to not be able to explore the oceans even w/ the lighthouse until they get caravels (which the other AI would use to explore the seas only)

	06-12-2001 05:53									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think the key here is that there is a chance that a galley won't be lost at sea. Apparently the AI is willing to take that chance (as am I), and therefore it sometimes can cross deeper water than you would expect.

I don't think this is broken, you just have to be aware of how important early contact is and be prepared to pay a price in sunken galleys to get it!

	06-12-2001 06:17									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I played this game on a custom map, standard rules. Everyone was losing galleys. No lighthouse yet. Anyway...I discovered astronomy, which is supposed to give you caravels, and make it safe to use galleys. No go. I lost two caravels in "bad weather" before reaching another continent nobody had been to, and lo and behold all the other civs suddenly make it over to the continent in galleys. -_-

	06-12-2001 07:07									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't know that the AI does risk it's ships. I thought the AI was "magically" crossing the sea when I first started, but then I:
1) read the description for the ships more carefully and realized their is no actual penalty for moving through sea squares, just where you end your turn. (DOH! )
2) realized that on the diagonal movements, you can frequently travel quite easily from one coastal square to another coastal adjacent to another island/continent.

Let's just say that the appearance of impassibility can be quite decieving.

	06-12-2001 08:37									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

this hasn't been a problem for me. but once they build lighthouse, you can expect all uninhabited islands to be settled by the ai.

you need to beat them to it on archipelago. I played archipelago last night, yet I ended up on 1 big continent with 5 other ai's. All the other ai's were hampered by small continents/islands