06-12-2001 04:58									#1
	Can a Builder Win at this? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It seems to me that the AI cheats even more efficiently than in Civ2. Is it even possible to win without being military?

	06-12-2001 05:14									#2
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It depends on the level:

At anything under Emperor, you can absolutely win without using a massive military. You must expand quickly and culturally take over a few cities that normally get mixed in before you consoldate your territory. Clearly you have to defend yourself, but there's no pressing need to expand via conquest.

At Emperor, I'm not sure if it can be done, it might be possible. I always use aggressive military while improving my empire until I have the tech lead, and then I don't generally use too much warfare after that (unless it's just for the fun of it).

At Deity, it cannot. It is fairly easy to win at this level, but you are required to wage early war to make up for the dramatic growth bonuses of the AI. I can't imagine winning at this level without using early force unless you're trying something extremely unusual (e.g. maybe a diplomatic "victory"). Another important aspect of early warfare at this level is the creation of Great Leaders. Without them you can pretty much forget about any of the wonders until the late Industrial Age.

	06-12-2001 05:23									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm almost always a builder (I don't think I've ever not been in last place in military service), and it's certainly possible to win constructively underneath Deity.

It's certainly easier to mount huge assaults in III, however -- the war weariness change and replacing the food/shield unit support with simple $$ saw to that.

You *will* need to overwhelm any civ within striking distance of your core cities. Middle-sized continent must be entirely yours. You can do this with a very judicious use of assaults and so really minimize bloodshed, but their cap at least needs to be taken out militarily.

But after that, if you can secure good trading relationships, get (and protect) a tech lead, and build a strong *defensive* force (esp. naval), then you can win as a builder.

	06-12-2001 05:52									#4
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I think Civ III is structured in a way that moves away from the archetypal Builder, Momentum, Hybrid types. In Civ III, you have to play a more balanced game - you can be tilted toward builder or momentum, but even the most conscientious builder will at some point need military force, generally to kick a foreign power off your continent or to acquire a resource, and the most bloodthirsty conqueror needs to pay attention to culture and infrastructure. And even if playing Hybrid style, situation might at some time demand full mobilization to military or massive infrastructural reform. In Civ III you really do have to play all three kinds.

That said, you can play "mostly-builder" Try the Babylonians as an alternative to the obvious French choice.

-Sev

	06-12-2001 06:22									#5
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yes you can win...but it won't feel like a win.It will feel like kissing your sister 10 times.The tediousness of constantly contacting,selling maps,brokering techs.....argh...its tough to take.....get used to the messages of other civs building wonders.Without war you have no leaders.No leaders makes wonders a gamble that rarely pays off after the ancient era.


the UN victory is kinduva bail out way to win when all is not going well.

I am playing the monarch level civfanatics game of the month#2 in this manner and it is sheer torture.I won't be doing that again.
Civ3 is a war game with a little building thrown in.It is at it's best when played accordingly.

However ..this type of game would be less unattractive if we had an embassy that showed something.HINT-HINT.Now we must make contact blah blah just to monitor who has what and who needs this and that.

Last edited by Smash on 06-12-2001 at 06:27

	06-12-2001 06:38									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ain't THAT the truth! We could really use a "Central Intelligence Advisor" or "KGB Informant" who gathers and presents all the information on other civs that you can gain via tedious legwork in the trade screen. Things like:

List of Techs they have
# of turns since they last discovered a tech
Max gold per turn they are willing to pay
Other civs they have contact with
Type of government
Size of military
Relative Culture level
List of resources (luxury and strategic) they have
List of resources they can trade (i.e. if they have 5 incense, but can't trade any to you, then you know they are already trading with other civs)
List and duration of existing trade agreements with you
List of wonders under creation, along with # of turns since you became aware they were building it.

All of this info can be found and/or calculated if you're willing to do the book keeping. It would be great if they would allow you to see all of this in one screen, making the game a lot less tedious and a lot more fun.