07-12-2001 19:50									#1
	Question about SE mods Support Apolyton

I saw an older post here that suggested that it might be possible to add abilities to the SE choices beyond the 10 society effects. In particular, someone said they were going to try to add a ++TALENT effect to one of the SE choices in alpha.txt. However, I have not seen it discussed further, and have not been able to verify if it works.

Anybody know for sure? And if ++TALENT works, will any of the other variables from faction.txt work as well? +DRONE? Adding interest, or hab limits, or ... wow... the mind boggles...

	08-12-2001 00:01									#2
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Don't get your hopes up - only the extra TALENT works!

As I mentioned in one of the threads, and I have throughfully tested it, you can only add up to ++++++TALENT, or +6 talents at each base! I do not know how far the negative part of the modifier goes, since I haven't tested that yet (imagine +6 frones! )

	08-12-2001 00:49									#3
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So +TALENT for an SE choice would be the same as the HGP. Pretty powerful, considering that HGP is one of the most powerful early game SPs. Still, it's not as powerful as the Faction Ability TALENT, X, like Lal has.

Was it useful in balancing SE choices, or was it too destabilizing?

Does -TALENT produce extra drones? And, more interestingly, do the effects double up against the black-shirted super-drones? I.e. would ++++TALENT create two Talents, four Talents, or 4 content citizens? Would ----TALENT cause 2 superdrones in a size 2 base?

	09-12-2001 17:21									#4
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Useful? Probably - I should think adding a +1 TALENT to knowledge would be nice

If you look in the alpha.txt, you can see a non-implemented descriptions of the TALENT effect

quote: #SOCTALENT -1, Extra drones at each base 0, 1, Extra talents at each base!

Unfortunatelly I am too dumb to understand the concept for a "superdrone" (they are all the same to me, when I nerve-staple them ) but I think that a +4 TALENT would create just additional four talents. Anyone care to elaborate?

	10-12-2001 06:09									#5
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I don't have the answer, but I have an observation. I have concluded from experience in many games that the effects of all of the factors in that section are limited to what is shown, thus:

#SOCECONOMY is limited to
-3, -2 energy each base
:
5, +1 energy/sq; +4 energy/base; +3 commerce!!!!

Although you can accumulate -4 Economy and less, the effect stops at -3. You can accumulate +6 Economy and more, but the effect stops at +5.

#SOCEFFIC is limited to
-4, ECONOMIC PARALYSIS
:
4, PARADIGM ECONOMY!!

Although you can accumulate -5 Efficiency and less, the effect stops at -4. You can accumulate +5 Economy and more, but the effect stops at +4.

So, therefore, I would expect:

#SOCTALENT is limited to
-1, Extra drones at each base
0,
1, Extra talents at each base!

It is a strange item. What is the actual effect?
Notice: "drones" and "talents".
How many extra drones/talents are gained? One? More?
Does "SOCIAL, -TALENT" differ at all from "SOCIAL, --TALENT"?
Does "SOCIAL, +TALENT" differ at all from "SOCIAL, ++TALENT"?
Something to test...

	10-12-2001 21:36									#6
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Not sure about this, but ....
*Weathin, i think i know what u mean by super-drones, they appear as bright red in the display. I suppose they influence weather the riots will destroy base facilities or not. One of them does not count double (i'm sure of this, because in size 3 bases where i got 1 of them, one normal worker and one talent thanks to the HGP, i didn't got riots). Also, i THINK base facilities like recreation commons eleiminate them like normal ones, but i'm not sure. What i'm sure is that with a punishment sphere, they still appear red, but doesn't riot (quite strange). Also, i THINK if u add some talents with SE, they will be present in any case (i mean, they will not change some drones to normal, they will be talents, like those Lal gets, or those u get with HGP), and in this case, one talent compensate for one drone, super or not.
*On the cap of efficiency, i'm not sure if this one really have a cap like other SE choices. I mean, doesn't efficiency decrease as a function of distance from HQ, in this way, having an efficiency of 6 would mean u can get maximal efficiency farther from HQ then with effic 4, even if the SE screen displays paradigm economy in both cases. Needs testing.
*I'm quite SURE, planet SE has no cap. There is a 75% mindworm capture cap, but the decreasing eco-damage has no cap.

	10-12-2001 23:58									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Bob Morane *I'm quite SURE, planet SE has no cap. There is a 75% mindworm capture cap, but the decreasing eco-damage has no cap.

If you've seen the ecology thread (which was up LONG time ago in the other forum) it clearly said that the effect of reduced eco-damage actually stops at 2! I do not get a chance to throughoutly observe the effects of eco-damage (except having to build Pressure Dome everywhere ) so I can't support that statement. And you are right about efficiency, with Gaians and Aki being the ones who can reach +9 EFFIC and therefore much easily managing the huge empires you get in late games.

On the contrary to your saying, Gwillybj (do I have to call you that? ), my tests have proven that the TALENT level goes up to +6! I tested this by modifying Lal (replace his parameters with this to further test):

SOCIAL, ++++++++TALENT, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0, UNIT, 0

This gives me a big base with 6 TALENTS and an odd drone



These effectsare quite strange - no wonder they weren't implemented in the SE table!

	17-12-2001 15:27									#8
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Avenoct's Aldebaran mod uses the + Talent category to create ultra-hard computer-controlled factions. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me advertising his work here.