07-12-2001 22:10									#1
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I had posted few weeks ago about adding the Turks in the game. I had created a face by then and know I would like to show how the "alpha" version looks like.
I have chosen to do the Ottomans with Suleyman the Magnificent. In the end there will be a new unit, new leader animations and new civilodepia entries.
The animation for the leaderhead is in yahoo briefcase( see below). You only need to download Su_01, the other one is only the reverse version. Although I am not a graphics artist, I believe I have done pretty well.
The janissarie unit does not have animations yet. I hope it will be done in about 2-3 weeks. This time period can extend as my examination period is coming . Also the leaderhead is slightly different for each era.
Any comments would be welcome.
P.S. There is a minor flaw in the leaderhead animation (slide 28-30) I hope you can overlook it as it is really hard for me to repair it. When I began doing this I created layer over layer and now the picture has become a labyrinth. I was a beginner by then. Now I know how to manage though.

Link for animations : http://briefcase.yahoo.com/pamir14

Last edited by PanicX on 07-12-2001 at 23:10

	07-12-2001 22:18									#2
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The mighty janissaries (no animation yet):

Attachment: yaniceri2.gif
This has been downloaded 1339 time(s).

	07-12-2001 22:21									#3
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and Suleyman the magnificent. This is ancient era, before turks settled in anatolia. They still have to pass the mountains behind Suleyman

Attachment: ancient.gif
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	07-12-2001 22:25									#4
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this is Suleyman in Istanbul during industrial era (the animation for this is ready).

Attachment: suleyman good copy.gif
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	08-12-2001 06:56									#5
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Hmmm... his face looks a tad too familiar.. Where did I see that face before?

Cool moustache though

	08-12-2001 17:07									#6
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that face used to be Julius Caesar. It is too hard to start from nothing Also after thinking about the unit animations, I changed my mind. I am not doing them. I could do an aircraft but doing an infantry unit is too hard.

Should I do janissaries or cannons? As the inventors of cannons, turks were really good at making them. I could increase range, decrease cost, or make it available before (tech tree) other civs... Which one?

	17-12-2001 05:47									#7
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I don't think having a version of cannon as a UU is a good idea; bacause non-combat units can will never trigger golden ages. Janissary as a replacement for longbowman would probably be a better unique unit.

	17-12-2001 15:18									#8
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Good point. I have done some animations for janissaries and I will make it have 2 movement points, so it will be easy to defen any conquered cities.

	18-12-2001 10:15									#9
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The Janissary kinda looks like Elmer Fudd

	19-12-2001 14:15									#10
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great work pamir!

a minor comment though; lets name the civ Turks not Ottomans. I am sure you know it very well but for those who are not familiar with the issue; Ottomans is the name of an empire founded by Turks. The name comes from the dynasty that ruled the empire. Since the game uses race names for all civs its better to call them Turks.

For the unique unit; personally i dont like the janissaries at all but have no better idea. maybe we should think about the whole turkish history, not just the Ottomans part.
isnt it sad that thinking about all those mighty history lectures that are told to us.. there are no better figures than janissaries who were banned after some time because of their tendency to issue coups..

can you tell me about the tools you are using by the way?

	19-12-2001 20:27									#11
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Thank you Cort.
I have thought about renaming Ottomans as Turks, but it doesn't fit. First of all I would do Ataturk if the civs name was Turks, but I am not that good and I have a lot of school work. Also in the game neither England is named English nor Germay in named German. If you open the civ3mod and go to the civilizations part you will see three parts for the naming of the civ: 1-Civilization 2-Noun 3-Adjective
I put 1-Ottoman Empire 2- Turks 3- Turkish I think this way it is better. Turks belong to the turkish culture, but Ottoman Empire is a civilization.
I never liked the idea of janissaries either . I could put a special cavalry, but that would be russian. Therefor I think a janissarie with 2 movement points sounds good (for backing up all those cities conquered )
The tools I use are civ3copytool, flceditor, adobe photoshop 6.0, jascs animation shop 3.0, image converter 1.0, and notepad.

Progress report: Pedial Icons+Civiopedia+civ3mod done. Ancient and industrail age animations done. 50% of pcx files for faces are done. Basic unit anmations in two directions (Should I make the Janissarie do a 360 degree swing with his gun after attack? It looks cool but a bit to fancy!)

	20-12-2001 18:38									#12
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i dont want to make it an issue, and i know it is your mod and you are free to do whatever you like but just a few words about the ottomans/turks subject;

1. naming Turkish civ as "Ottomans" is like naming the Russian civ as "USSR". like the ottomans, USSR is no more but there is another Russian country.

2. you dont have to make their leader Ataturk, joan of arc had nothing to do with current french people, she lived ~800 years ago and similarly Elizabeth's reign was during 1600s. i'm sure she is not the most liked figure of English history, just a popular one.
there were no Arabs living in the Egypt during the reign of cleopatra at all.
so i think Magnificent Suleyman/Mehmet II, even Atilla of the Huns would be ok for a Turkish civilization.

anyway, i am looking forward to your completed mod

	20-12-2001 18:55									#13
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about the janissarie;
you will equip him with a rifle so it will either be a replacement for musketman or rifleman.. i think musketman would be a better choice since Industrial era is not the best time of the Turks

if you havent progressed considerebly in the animation stuff though, i suggest you to redesign them as an assault infantry unit using something like swords replacing the longbowman as bilo suggests.

another idea; there are is no heavily armoured horseman in turkish history so replace the knight unit with a light cavalary. faster but lower defence. like 4/2/3 for a/d/m

...which is the chinese rider actually?! i guess they included the rider to represent mounted hordes used by asian civs and since neither turks nor mongols are in the game, their unit is given to chinese..


perhaps it would be better to chance the UU for the chinese..

	21-12-2001 20:28									#14
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So are you suggesting that I should rename the civilization as Turks or Turkey? Turkey can be reasonable but I dont like calling it Turks since I only meant to concentrate on the turks that lived near Europe. Naming it the turks would be too general, since turks have many different countries.

I havent progressed a lot in janissarie animations so I can change it. When I make the final release I wont have the janissarie animations for running. It will just slide, but soon after I will release a patch containing animations.

Also about the janissarie: Would you prefer it as an attack unit? Longbowmen-Janissarie-Marine? I think you made a similar point, cort, but I could really understand it.

P.S. If I make it defence, it will be musketmen since riflemen gets obsolete too fast.

	24-12-2001 18:25									#15
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quote: Originally posted by PanicX So are you suggesting that I should rename the civilization as Turks or Turkey? Turkey can be reasonable but I dont like calling it Turks since I only meant to concentrate on the turks that lived near Europe. Naming it the turks would be too general, since turks have many different countries.

oops. you dont want to cover all turkish history? i am not a nationalist guy but i cant see a reason for ignoring pre-ottoman part of the history.. anyway.. its your choice.
if you ask my opinion, i would have called the civilization as "Turks". Forgive me if i am wrong, i am not playing the game for a while but i remember other civs named as adjectives like American (not USA).

quote: Also about the janissarie: Would you prefer it as an attack unit? Longbowmen-Janissarie-Marine? I think you made a similar point, cort, but I could really understand it.

well, if you want to be historically accurate, what we know as janissaries were actually sultan's royal guard. during peace times, they used to live in the palace. just for --important-- battles, they were leaving the palace.
In the battlefield, they were the most organized & well-trained & most heavily armed corps of the army, and they were clearly an assault force.
So making them a fast moving defensive infantry as you have mentioned wont make much sense when considering historical accuracy. but thinking in civ terms, making them a powerful assault unit will probably make the game a little bit unbalanced. replacing the longbowman will give Turks two powerful assault units together with knights.. which Turks were not using at all..

idea;
1. alter the knight unit for turks, rename it "sipahi" and reduce its defence stat from three to two; which makes it a lighter mounted unit which is accurate considering european knights.
2. replace longbowman with janissary with stats 5/2/1, the best attack unit of its time until cavalary is introduced, which is --not exactly but-- fairly accurate, considering the fact that Turkish armies were unbeaten until late 1600s.

	24-12-2001 21:45									#16
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There is England, Germany and Russia too in the game. There was no germany until the beginning of 19th century, but there were germans. So I dont think the game follows a straight line in naming Also as I said before: All turks dont belong to the same culture, but the culture of ottomans and turkey is very similar, same in many cases. If I named it turks, it would cover an are from eastern europe to middle asia. That is too general. I could name it western turks but that wouldnt make sense.

As for Janissaries:
1- I am doing your second idea, bu I will be making it 5/2/2. It may be kind of unbalanced but I could increase the cost slightly to make it fair. I am doing this because as you know turks never wore heavy armors and they moved really fast. The European fighters could not do much damage to turks because they were as slow as turtles.

The progress will be slow for the next few weeks, because I will be having final exams. I could probably finish it by the end of the February brake.

	26-12-2001 02:12									#17
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I belive 'Turkoman' and 'Turkic' are both acceptable adjectives.

	09-01-2002 20:19									#18
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Cool leader graphics. I would personally prefer Turks/Turkish/Turkey. Its not that historical but neither Russia, Germany, America or France are historical since noone of them have existed very long(1000 years are not long!!! ).

Siphai(Cavalary), Janissary(Longbowman) and Cannons can be used as special UU unit. I prefer Siphai or an Offensive Janissary since they were used as an offensive unit not pikeman or musketman like game unit. A cool solution could be like giving the janissary the same attribut as the aztec special unit.

I am turkish and i prefer Suleyman as leader as turks not Ataturk since Suleyman represents the zenit of turkish power in history.

Civ attributes, militaristic and religios

Here is a good link about turkish(pre-ottoman) and ottoman history, its short so u could use it if you want.

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Turkey2.html

	12-01-2002 00:43									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks for the comments

I am turkish too and I know a lot about our history. For example I just had a history exam last week .
For units: I wanted to do cannon but I cant! Cannons have no attack values, therefor they cant start a golden age. I dont really like the siphai part of the army therefor I am going to do janissaries. They played a more important role after the golden age (Even if they rioted every second). I wil do 5.2.2 for janissarie to make it historically correct. However it will be more expensive to balance the game.

P.S. I used the wrong time in the message. Not "I will" , but "I have done"!


Advancement: Civilopedia done. Modern, Ancient, Industrial animations done. Middle age 25%. All the shortcuts are done and all the mini faces too. I still have to do foreign advisor picture , otherwise the game crashes.
Unit animations: They are scaring me!!!! Too many of them!!! Maybe I should just use the musketman, or maybe the persian immortal????

I am sooorry this has taken so long. I had final exams last week, therefor I couldt work on this. I hope this will be done in a week or two (no unit animations!)

P.S.2: Okay, Okay! I will do it turkey (at least it is the closest to Ottoman Empire) . Dont expect me to do "turkish" though. That is toooooo general.

	14-01-2002 17:36									#20
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Hi.. im a highly patriotic Turkish student living in the United Arab Emirates.. and first I'd like to thank you for taking the time to put the Turks into this game. I cannot believe why the developers did not include the Turks in the first place. Anyways, I think you should use "Ottomans" as the name instead of "Turks." If you use Turks then not only will it represent the Seljuk Turks but also the Republic of Turkey after the Ottoman collapse, and since you chose the leader as Suleyman the Magnificient it makes more sense to use Ottomans. The Ottoman era was also the most famous and glorious period of Turkish history and using the Janissary as the unique unit is a great choice. The spahis were the Janissary equivalent of cavalry, and they were as fierce and disciplined as the Janissaries, and i think you should make them both 5.2.2.

	14-01-2002 17:39									#21
	Do not use Turkey! Tired of ads?

Seriously, if you use "Turkey" instead of Ottomans or the Ottoman Empire then it will make no sense at all.

	15-01-2002 00:07									#22
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quote: Originally posted by PanicX Thanks for the comments I am turkish too and I know a lot about our history. For example I just had a history exam last week . For units: I wanted to do cannon but I cant! Cannons have no attack values, therefor they cant start a golden age. I dont really like the siphai part of the army therefor I am going to do janissaries. They played a more important role after the golden age (Even if they rioted every second). I wil do 5.2.2 for janissarie to make it historically correct. However it will be more expensive to balance the game. P.S. I used the wrong time in the message. Not "I will" , but "I have done"! Advancement: Civilopedia done. Modern, Ancient, Industrial animations done. Middle age 25%. All the shortcuts are done and all the mini faces too. I still have to do foreign advisor picture , otherwise the game crashes. Unit animations: They are scaring me!!!! Too many of them!!! Maybe I should just use the musketman, or maybe the persian immortal???? I am sooorry this has taken so long. I had final exams last week, therefor I couldt work on this. I hope this will be done in a week or two (no unit animations!) P.S.2: Okay, Okay! I will do it turkey (at least it is the closest to Ottoman Empire) . Dont expect me to do "turkish" though. That is toooooo general.

About that Turkey vs. Ottoman issiue, its not a big deal. You can allways use the editor to change the name to Turkey/Turkish/Turks or Ottoman

	15-01-2002 20:35									#23
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good point. So I will stick with the Ottoman Empire/turks/turkish. This is the way i started it. You are free to change the name if you want to. Just dont rename it and publish it as a new civilization.
I also want to do Ottoman Empire as I have done all the civilopedia entries according to the history of turks from the beginning of Ottoman Empire.


This is the civilpoedia entry: (I need your comments to finalize it
so please make some)

^Ottoman Empire
^Ottoman Empire was a dynastic state centered in what is now Turkey, founded in the late 13th century and dismantled in the early 20th century. Ottomans were Turks and their Turkish ancestors came from Middle Asia.
^Ottoman Empire was founded by Osman, the leader of a small tribe that settled in western Anatolia. The Turkish name for Ottomans is Osmanlilar, which means the followers of Osman. This tribe quickly gained power and conquered many lands around it. Merely 150 years after its foundation, Ottomans conquered that times largest city, Constantinople, ended the Eastern Roman Empire, and renamed Constantinople to Istanbul.
^At its height in the mid-1500s, at the end of the reign of Süleyman I (Süleyman the Magnificent, Kanuni Sultan Süleyman) , the Ottoman Empire controlled a vast area extending from the Eastern Europe to the Middle East and North Africa.
^The empire went into slow decline after Süleyman, and by the early 1900s it controlled only Asia Minor (the Anatolia region of present-day Turkey) and parts of the Balkans and the Middle East. The Ottomans lost even more territory during World War I (1914-1918). Ottoman Empire was allied with Austrian and German Empire in WW1. After allies won, the allied troops divided and occupied the empire from the end of the war until 1922. However a great leader, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk drove them out; Mustafa Kemal Atatürk abolished the empire later that year and proclaimed the Republic of Turkey in 1923. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is a very important person for Turkey, since in what seemed the end for Turks in Anatolia, he managed to save them. The modern system in today’s Turkey is based on his ideas and without him and his friends Turkey would not be an independent country now.

Last edited by PanicX on 15-01-2002 at 20:45

	17-01-2002 03:13									#24
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Probably a small point, but the Ottoman Empire's height, or greatest extent was during the 1600-1700s when they controlled all of eastern europe until Vienna, and the all the lands surrounding the Black Sea, such as the Crimea.

	19-01-2002 14:22									#25
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They controlled the largest area in the beginning of 1600's but they started losing after that. This period is called "duraklama devri, stopping age (something like that)" Also the government started losing its power and many riots happened.
Ottomans were strongest during 1500-1600.

	05-05-2002 19:43									#26
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How's this going? I can't find any files in that briefcase, and have therefore moved this away from the Files forum, as it to me seems to be a project rather then a file.

	08-05-2002 19:29									#27
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I've posted something similar to this before so pardon my persistence. As great as the Janissaries, Ottoman cannons and Sipahis were, the fact of the matter is that the heart of the Ottoman empire (Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, and the former Yugoslav states) was not won by any of them. It was won by the Gazis. I think that because of this fact, you should consider them as the unique Ottoman/Turkish unit. Without the Gazis, the Ottomans probably wouldn't have conquered Konya, much less the Serbian Princes.

Peace

	12-05-2002 07:03									#28
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Nice job, DhulKhidr, I forgot about Gazi's, they were the key of the early armies (pre-yeniceri and pre-empire), and they could use bows (so a replacement for longbowman makes sense).
I personally like 5/2/2, with a 60 cost. So kinda like the offensive version of a musketeer (name it janissary, or yeniceri, which I personally like more), and using both of them together will make them dangerous . BTW make sure the leader is Mehmet II, whoever is making the mod, because that guy was, IMO, the best. Can the Turks have several unique units, like a 3/2/3 knight that costs the 60 shields (called sifari or whatever) and a musketeer name janissary. This is great, peace out.

	13-05-2002 18:35									#29
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I have created an Ottoman Turk scenario a few times and I always just replace the Iroquois with the Ottomans because of the Iroquois UU, the Mounted Warrior. I think Big Turkey that your suggestion would not only be better, but more accurate. The Gazis were more advanced than a Mounted Warrior but that seems to be their best fit. Maybe I should create my own Ottoman Turks civ. Is it just me or is this thread almost dead? I'm going to see if PanicX has posted more elsewhere.

	19-05-2002 02:49									#30
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I'm sorry I didn't reply!!! I couldn't access apolyton for the past 1 month. My computer can open http://www.apolyton.net but not http://apolyton.net. I always typed http://apolyton.net. I realized this mistake today, and consequently I finished my project today too For the UU I used Janissaries, but I dind't have time to do the animations for the unit Gazi is a good idea, but it is too ancient (start the golden age too early) and everybody doesn't know them. I hate early golden ages...

Gramphos: Thank you. This was a project when it was posted... I never understood why it was in the files forums anyways. But know it is complete!!


Note: I have posted the files on civfanatics . The limit here is 500kb so I won't upload the files here! I would be very grateful if an administrator could post these files here (if you have no limit for uploading, otherwise don't even bother)
The link to the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=22783

Last edited by PanicX on 19-05-2002 at 13:25