15-08-2000 12:24									#1
	How do I convince someone to... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A friend of mine started playing civ2 a few months ago. At first he only cheated a lot, for example he gave himself all the techs (on chieftain) and proceeded to kill other the other civilizations with modern weapons.

After some time he started playing "real" civ2 games. However, he soon stopped playing civ2 to play other games (such as Doom, yuck).

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can convince him that:
1. Civ2 is fun?
2. Civ2 is even more fun if you don't cheat a lot?

Thanks in advance,
Dr.Oogkloot

	15-08-2000 12:45									#2
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Mmmmm. With great respect to your friend, he seems like a bit of a lost cause. Sounds a bit like he doesn't like a challenge, which is what Civ is all about. Maybe you could persuade him of the challenge.

On the bright side, a young relative of a Civ-playing friend of mine did much the same thing - cheated, claimed the game was too easy, and gave it away. Lately, he's come back to the game and is now taking it seriously. Somehow or other, my friend persuaded him of the challenge. After heaping a fair bit of sh*t on him for being a coward.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	15-08-2000 23:55									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There are chess players and checkers players.

I also find it difficult to comprehend how someone could not fall immediately in love with this game but some people don't like it.Its true.Its true.

	16-08-2000 22:09									#4
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Outstanding analogy, Smash.

And I am half of a pair to illustrate it. I, former chess champion in college, love Civ 2. Number one son, NOT a chess player, plays some other doofus role-playing game. I don't even remember the name of it.

But get this. Number one son teaches history in high school. Why he doesn't get hooked on Civ 2 is beyond me.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

	18-08-2000 20:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe it is because the game is such a challenge for the uninitiated, that your friend resorted to cheating and then giving up.

I was lucky that I started playing "as a team" with a couple of friends, who had played a handful of games each. They gave me some key tips and pointers, and left me to it. Then I found Apolyton, and really started to make progress.

Also, there is some good advice in another thread. Start at the deity level, and dont learn any bad habits.

	19-08-2000 09:17									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

kcbob,

You play chess!? Me too, albeit not as much as I used to.

Interested in a game sometime? I'm a little rusty, but still...

Carolus

	21-08-2000 17:10									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Carolus,

I'd love to play a game. There's just one problem. Since I last played the game (a century ago), they've gone and changed the notation. I'm used to P-Q4. What the heck is c4g432%$x2? If you can explain the new notation, or if you're comfortable with the old, I'm game.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

	21-08-2000 22:17									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Algebraic notation,although foreign to descriptive notationers is a better system.

P-K4 =E4

Black answers with P-K4.This is E5.

I was looking at some old scoresheets and my moves are a mix of both notations and a little of my own.

c4g432%$x2--something at square C4 has moved to G4.The rest looks like someone got flustered and cleared the board with a sweep of the hand.

	21-08-2000 22:33									#9
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If I understand correctly, the "E" denotes the fifth file from the left from White's perspective. Therefore, E4 is not a problem. Neither is Black's reply, E5. But assuming the game progresses as stated, what would N-KB3 be?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited August 21, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 01:11									#10
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Try this:

Play a scenario "hotseat" with him. Play one in which the two of you are allied, so you can discuss tactics and assist one another.
A friend of mine swore he'd never play "that damn game" which I "wasted so much time on". But we hooked up 2194Days of War by Captain Nemo and played as the Axis. We set it to the diety equivalent and gave it a shot. He got the hang of it soon, and was addicted by early '42! We eventually coordinated a dual landing on both American coasts. I sent a large Imperial Armada to assist his freighters across the Atlantic whilst conducting my own solo raid on the west coast.
Needless to say he went out and bought himself some Civ and all is well... All this from a kid who played *gasp* Duke Nukem.

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited August 21, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 03:34									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Nf3.

lets say a Ruy Lopez begins

1.P-k4 P-k4
2.N-KB3 N-QB3
3.B-N5

becomes

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Bb5

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1 a b c d e f g h
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 21, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 17:19									#12
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"I see", said the blind man to the deaf mute who had his wooden leg stuck out the window to see if it was raining.

Thank you, Smash. I hadn't paid that much attention to the new notation to realize that the piece was mentioned when necessary. One last question, though. Let's say it's late in the game and both knights can land on the same square. How do you denote which knight? I'm sure it's obvious when you see it but there are probably a couple of ways to denote which knight.

BTW. I lied. One more question. Why? Why was there a need to change? Surely it wasn't to save one keystroke per move? Who decided to make the move? How much of a struggle was it to change? Okay, so I had more than one question.

One more, if you please. How do you denote taking a piece, e.g., BxN in the Ruy Lopez with which you opened?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

	22-08-2000 17:21									#13
	Got spare money?

kcbob,

I only know the notation Smash uses above, haven't learned the Anglosaxian (???) notation.

Instead of the "short" notation, you can also write down the "departure" square as well as the "destination" square.

1. e2-e4 e7-e5
2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6

etc...

Question: are these abbreviations correct?

Rook = R
Bishop = B
Knight = N
Queen = Q
King = K

I don't mind being humiliated in public.

Let's start a thread in the appropriate forum and post our moves there?

Carolus

	22-08-2000 17:27									#14
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Hi!

Didn't see your post.

Continuing the game in my post above.

1. e2-e4 e7-e5
2. Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6
3. d2-d4 e5xd4

So yes, "x" denotes taking a piece.

If two pieces can move to the same square, write down the "departure" square as well.

Another way is like this: One rook is at A8 and the other at d5. If you move the rook from a8 to a5 write

Ra8-a5 or (the short version) Raa5.

Had it been the other rook:

Rd5-a5 or Rda5

Edited: One Carolus is enough...

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited August 22, 2000).]

	23-08-2000 09:34									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Carolus,

I just sent you an email. I'm assuming you'll pick white. Let the game begin!! I'll probably write down both types of annotation when I post a move. I guess the last question would be, what forum would be appropriate? You pick, post, and I'll pick it up from there.

BTW. This IS for a house payment, correct?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited August 22, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 22:42									#16
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Yes!If you could post your moves so others(me) can follow the game.Then let the kibitzing begin.

	23-08-2000 03:45									#18
	Remove this text

Sire,

Your challenge awaits You at http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum22/HTML/000605.html

Smash takes on the winner?

Edited: Damned urls!

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited August 22, 2000).]