08-12-2001 10:49									#1
	Scoring why a civ gains why losing? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I am playing a std size warlord game. In the 1600's India (largest went to war with china (next largest), me in the middle. I made no RoP and did not protest as they both ranged across my land. India sent 30 odd War Elephants in one stack. Any way they fought for a while and I joined china to cut of the large army far from home. I was able to destoy it with dam little help from china. Now it is 1750's and I am still fighting, but have manageds to snuff two of their cities and capture two more. It has been rough, but I have moved to second place. As I watch the score, India is keeping pace with me and maintaining their lead? I do not get it. Culture, I guess is the reason as I have only two wonders bulit with leaders. I just figured that about a 100 years of war and loss of 4 cities and countless units should be cutting into that score? They are now only sending 2-4 units a turn at me, instead of that 40-50 man group that was in the field at the start. I also had to clobber 2 english cities and 10-12 units as they had MPP, they have since paid for peace. I am nearing completion of my RR to all cities so it will soon be easy to defend and start grabbing a few more cities. I know I must cut them down a bit as I can not match the wonders and likely improvements. I would surely thing that they would be suffering from the set back? Maybe in the short run the savings on the maint cost is help fund the new units? At least they are all regulars now (still a few manage to beat my fortified elite calvary in open fields, oh well). I have one army that I am going to use to bust the first fortified units in a siege (al those HP's can take it). Will have Epic and Mil Acad in a few turns.

	08-12-2001 11:09									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: As I watch the score, India is keeping pace with me and maintaining their lead? I do not get it.

The histograph shows your "current score for that year", the "official score" with the number on the right is an average of all scores that Civ has had since Day1. This is why if you kill off a Civ they will still have an "official score" on the right.

Example, in my current game India has recently obtained a higher "current score for that year" than Babylon. However, Babylon still remains with a higher "official score" in the rankings due to it's centuries of prior success.

	08-12-2001 11:18									#3
	I'm No Expert... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

... but here's my understanding of the scoring in Civ3. It is based entirely on population and territory. When you look at the Histograph screen with the scores, below the cumulative totals you can see the breakdown of your score. I believe those numbers (which only list territory, happy citizens, and content/specialist citizens) all add to exactly your current score.

In other words, capturing cities adds to your score not because of your strength, but because it increases your population and territory. Further, no amount of Culture affects your (or the AI's) score.

I would assume that other elements that one would expect to find in the score have been removed because they lead naturally to other types of victory -- conquest, culture, etc.

India is staying ahead of you in score because: (a) defeating their units makes no difference, score wise; and (b) you may have reduced their population slightly, but since score is based on number of citizens, not cities, population growth in the rest of their empire is probably offsetting your gains.

A couple other scoring wrinkles, as I understand them: their is a bonus for winning the game before time runs out, proportional to the difficulty level and the number of turns remaining when you won (not sure what the exact ratio is, though); and you gain points for each future tech you research.

I hope that helps, and, as my subject line suggests, I'm no expert of Civ3 scoring yet, so if anyone feels the need to correct me and has the knowledge to do so, please feel free...

	08-12-2001 11:28									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Even if he took the majority of India's territory he wouldn't pass India's score until later since "the average of per-turn totals is your Overall Civilization Score." (page154). So just because he's better than India today doesn't mean he will get a higher overall score ranking today.

Asharak is right that territory, technology & citizens affect score, mostly territory. Units do not affect score, only power.

	08-12-2001 12:39									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I guess I could have read the manul (rtfm - read the f###### manual). I did not even pay attention to the part that says it is an average. I guess it just that the history graph is not numberic, so you have to gage it. India is doing much worse on the graph over the last 50 or so years and I have cut the lead now at 1798. Peace all around for now, but soon it will be back at it. I am ready now as I have infantry and will start making artillary. I got another leader an hurried the Evolution for two more techs. I think I am now ahead or nearly so in research. I see how I got so far back. It was not making enough workers to get in some mines early. Oh those industious worker, I miss them so.