08-12-2001 11:24									#1
	Palace Building (Shut up, its not a bug) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Okay. So I saw that building your palace now depends on how large your empire is (Size of cities, I'm pretty sure).

This can get pretty silly. This shot was taken at about AD 1350. And note that this is one of my higher production cities (a Tier II city if you will, not the zero-corruption wonder factories, but a solid money/support city)

But still. 445 turns to build a palace? The game will be done before that. In another (albeit corruption choked) city, it now claims to take 4000 turns. I am conquering several large nations, so its understandable. But 4000 turns? Should it even be listed?

(NOTE: The guerilla is a test unit. Yes I know lots of people have tried it, but I'm curious too)

Attachment: build.gif
This has been downloaded 212 time(s).

	08-12-2001 11:30									#2
	Seems A Little Unreasonable... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

gachnar: I've got to agree, those numbers do seem slightly on the, um, insane side.

To play devil's advocate, however, perhaps the rationalization was that later in the game it SHOULD be near impossible to move what has been the symbolic seat of power for 1000s of years? Doesn't make much sense to me, but it's all I can think of at the moment.

Another possibility: is this screen from a game that was begun before the patch? One of the Firaxians (can't remember whether it was Jeff or Dan) did mention some incompatibilities with alterations between the versions... perhaps this is producing the unreasonably high palace construction costs?

Don't really know what to say, except to agree with you that such a cost for the palace seems ridiculous... maybe some one with more insight will come along and enlighten us.

- Ash

	08-12-2001 11:40									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh. Just to make sure everyone knows:

I feel this is actually a great idea.

I disliked the idea of Capital-Jumping to accomplish culture conquests.

This is just a nice piece of evidence that such tactics are very clearly dead. I can't imagine the production powerhouses needed to pop out a late-game palace in a sizeable civ.

This isn't a complaint.

Its me laughing at one (munchkinish, IMHO) tactic thats been squelched by the guys at Firaxis.

I just checked, and my most productive city (Eridu) can pump out a Palace in 141 turns. At AD 1440, that will put me pretty close to the end of the game. Well, with railroads and if I get a factory built soon, get Hoover built nearby, perhaps I could get it out by 1900. But probably couldn't move it more than twice before the game ends.

If I knew how far away Hunt Valley (I think thats where Dan and Soren say they're from) was, and it was within my operational range, I'd drop off some beer, or perhaps Coke (the juice of life). Something to say: "Good job" and get a collective laugh at the Capital-hopping players.

Likewise for IFE.

	08-12-2001 11:46									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sorry.

Yet another self-inflating reply:

I have 55 cities. I lead the world in land mass and population.

I think my capital is set.

	08-12-2001 11:56									#5
	Sorry for the Misinterpret... ;) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Now that I understand what you're saying, I still agree with most of it.

I agree that capital-jumping is a bit of a silly tactic, one that, if considered realistically, wouldn't really work. After all, once a neighbour has moved their capital 4 or 5 times, does it really become all that significant where it is NOW? You know it's gonna move... so who cares? At least, that's how I'd think of it if I were a neighbouring citizen.

A genuine question, though -- what happens if your capital is captured or razed? Is it still cheap to build a new one, does anyone know? I could see this being pretty crippling if you have to wait 100 turns to replace a lost palace...

And if Firaxis' intent was to make nullify the palace-jumping strategy, why'd they just make it prohibitively expensive? Why not simply remove the option in certain situations? Obviously, it can't be removed completely, since there are legimitate reasons to move a palace -- corruption, etc. This raises another question, however: is it now going to be extremely difficult to move your palace to combat corruption as you expand in one direction? That seems a little unfair, to me...

Hmmm... dunno about this one. Someone please tell me if I'm just not thinking clearing because it's 2 a.m., I've had too little sleep, and I've got a cold... can't see how any of those would make a difference, but hey. So -- bright ideas, anyone?

- Ash

	08-12-2001 18:02									#6
	Re: Palace Building (Shut up, its not a bug) Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by gachnar Okay. So I saw that building your palace now depends on how large your empire is (Size of cities, I'm pretty sure). This can get pretty silly. This shot was taken at about AD 1350. And note that this is one of my higher production cities (a Tier II city if you will, not the zero-corruption wonder factories, but a solid money/support city) But still. 445 turns to build a palace? The game will be done before that. In another (albeit corruption choked) city, it now claims to take 4000 turns. I am conquering several large nations, so its understandable. But 4000 turns? Should it even be listed? (NOTE: The guerilla is a test unit. Yes I know lots of people have tried it, but I'm curious too)

You mention you are running with a mod, so I suspect that you have not picked up the changes that the patch made to building costs (it's in the same file as your guerilla unit). The patch reduces the base cost of the Palace by 75%, so I think the build time would normally have been 112 turns instead of 445 and 1000 instead of 4000 (and yes - that's still a lot).

	08-12-2001 18:22									#7
	Remove this text

If you are so desperate for a palace relocation why not just wait until you have a hero and send him over to complete it. It would be a waste using all those shields. I always wait for a hero when I neeed to build my 2nd palace.

Anyway have not played with the patch yet, so I don't know about the new corruption levels.

	08-12-2001 20:08									#8
	Re: Sorry for the Misinterpret... ;) Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Asharak A genuine question, though -- what happens if your capital is captured or razed? Is it still cheap to build a new one, does anyone know? I could see this being pretty crippling if you have to wait 100 turns to replace a lost palace...

AFAIK, it`s auto-moved immediately