08-12-2001 15:49									#1
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My air force and naval fleet were wiped out by a single horseman [frown] So one unit on entering a city kills all naval and air units, they must have snook in under cover of dark, then managed to set up bombs. Man my air force and Navy deserved to die after letting enemy perpetrate such a heinous act.

	08-12-2001 16:29									#2
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Well, since the ships are docked in the port and the airplanes are on the ground they cannot fight and are easy to destroy.

	08-12-2001 17:14									#3
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Well, how ridiculous was the civ2 method of a Cavalry and Transport duking it out?

	08-12-2001 18:10									#4
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But hey, what a waste. Shame they couldn't have captured some of the units intact.

Ships docked in port still have armed sailors, especially if you have a fleet of them. Maybe they should be given more of a chance against weaker units, I mean how can a single warrior scuttle 4 battleships without a shot being fired, or should I say without an axe being flung.

As to cavalry and and transport, ala civ2, maybe some of those sailors did not want to go down without a fight. Anyway the transport invariably lost.

	08-12-2001 20:11									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Boney Ships docked in port still have armed sailors, especially if you have a fleet of them. Maybe they should be given more of a chance against weaker units, I mean how can a single warrior scuttle 4 battleships without a shot being fired, or should I say without an axe being flung.

Maybe they sink their own ships to prevent the enemy from getting them

	08-12-2001 20:25									#6
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I think the question here is how a civilization that is obviously so far ahead in tech can be stupid enough to let a bunch of primitive horsemen get an oportunity like this?

Maybe you should fire the person responsible for the cities defense. Because by leaving it undefended he is the guilty party here. Im pretty sure this wouldnt have happened if 2-3 units of Mech Infantry were guarding the city.

	08-12-2001 23:43									#7
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quote: Maybe they sink their own ships to prevent the enemy from getting them

You should relay this idea to the artillery corps too.

quote: I think the question here is how a civilization that is obviously so far ahead in tech can be stupid enough to let a bunch of primitive horsemen get an oportunity like this?

Well Expat, you are quite right, but this actually happened in my first game when I was still in a bit of civ2 mode. The first game I played was without bothering to read anything first, a case of download and here we go. Never let it happen since though.

	08-12-2001 23:49									#8
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quote: Originally posted by sophist Well, how ridiculous was the civ2 method of a Cavalry and Transport duking it out?

As weird as this case and this is why we blame it.

	09-12-2001 04:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boney I mean how can a single warrior scuttle 4 battleships without a shot being fired, or should I say without an axe being flung.

They do have at least a year to do it in...

-mario

	09-12-2001 09:22									#10
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[Truly Tasteless Mode]

Yeah, I mean primitive warriars taking out ships?

I mean, it's not like a few guys in a Zodiac could take out an Aegis Cruiser, or anything?

Or a couple of guys with Box Knives take out a skyscraper?

[/truly tasteless mode]

I have come to rationalize the spearman/tank issue this way. A civ may be totally backward compared to my modern armor, but the facts are that in real life some of these very backward third world 'armies' tend to do some serious damage to Us Americans world wide through 'terrorist' methods.


I don't know if the game designers meant this, but it is the only way I can justify the dreaded Anti-Tank Spearman...

I guess I have to think that although the 'Unit' in the game is called Spearman, and is represented by a 'Spearman' icon, he is really just a very untrained, third world fighter, with little or no modern training, little supplies, and poor equipment.

The Vietcong were shooting our Hueys with Wooden Arrows, you know.

I guess I just don't look at it so literally.

Not to say that the unit in the game is okay, I don't agree with it at all.

A modern tank unit in the game should only be taken out by a spearman under some very extreme situations. There should be some kind of randomness in the equation.

Or if he is the last defender in a size 12 city, he should get some resistance benifit or something.

But in an open field battle?

I don't think so. Maybe on occasion. But not as consistanly as I have seen.

You know, though, I was in the Armored Cavalry for 8 years, and a few well placed Malatov Cocktails can 'take out' an M-1 Abrahms tank. Not exactly destroy it, but render it pretty useless as an offensice weapon. And if the game units represent more than one actualy unit, then maybe a 'Company' of 'spearmen' could render a Troop of Modern Armored Cavalry useless by whatever means available.

Yeah it's possible, but is it as likely as we have all seen it? I don't think so.

	09-12-2001 10:23									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Expatriate I think the question here is how a civilization that is obviously so far ahead in tech can be stupid enough to let a bunch of primitive horsemen get an oportunity like this? Maybe you should fire the person responsible for the cities defense. Because by leaving it undefended he is the guilty party here. Im pretty sure this wouldnt have happened if 2-3 units of Mech Infantry were guarding the city.

Get real. You know you can't be assured of holding a city against horsemen with anything less than five elite mechanized infantry.

	09-12-2001 10:27									#12
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And some artillery for assitance.

	09-12-2001 10:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Boney You should relay this idea to the artillery corps too.

If my defenders are likely to be taken out(like almost certain) I disband my artillery first. Although this has only happened to me once.

	09-12-2001 11:03									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Terser Get real. You know you can't be assured of holding a city against horsemen with anything less than five elite mechanized infantry.

lol, I'm usually comfortable with two regular spearmen.

	09-12-2001 17:35									#15
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And the Sailors...

Maybe they all adhere to the Priciples of Bushido and commit Seppuku, cos they can´t stand the shame that the defendig Elite Rifleman was overhelmed by a single Regular Horseman-Unit (with the last sailor still alive igniting the bomb which sends the Ship to the bottom of the harbor)

	09-12-2001 21:12									#16
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Well a single horseman taking out a entire docked naval fleet would be no problem.

1. Keep ships docked with no external food supply.

2. Feed sailors trapped on ships nothing but beans.

3. Sit back and wait for niccotine craving sailor to light up cigarette.

4. Laugh from pier as ship explodes in glorious fiery explosion from noxious sailor gas emissions.

	10-12-2001 05:21									#17
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Haven't you ever heard of the LONE RANGER and his faithfull native american companion TONTO?!

Be afraid, be VERY afraid...

	10-12-2001 08:11									#18
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As weird as it is, it's better than in Civ 2 (at least I think so) where you had to make repeated assaults to root out those last few hard-core cruise missles that were stubornly defending the city to the death.
Having those kinds of units just die is good because most of your units only get one attack per turn (except modern armour), and a bunch can't even kill anymore, just rough up the unit (planes, ships, artillery).