09-12-2001 07:46									#1
	Resource Clumping and Map Size Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Does it seem odd that you can get the same streak of 9 Oil on a small map and on a huge map? It seems that on smaller maps there should be less clumping to reflect the lower granularity of a smaller map.
Also, playing on a small map with 16 players i found that the rule that there are enough resources for everyone but not neccesarily available to everyone doesnt fly. There were only 10 oils, about 8 Coals and only 6 of the 8 luxeries (including 1 incense, and 3 spices). Does the map generator account for the number of players or does it assume that it will always be the default? Is this just part of the consideration in choosing the number civs in game? There should be some kind of option for getting the right number of resources relative to the number of civs.

	09-12-2001 07:55									#2
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Yeah, resources being in one part of the world is uncommon.
Wait, isn't 70% of the world's oil concentrated on 5% of the world surface. And diamonds are very rare everywhere except South Africa.
It may make for a tougher game, but it is very realistic.

	09-12-2001 12:15									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Iconoclast Yeah, resources being in one part of the world is uncommon. Wait, isn't 70% of the world's oil concentrated on 5% of the world surface. And diamonds are very rare everywhere except South Africa. It may make for a tougher game, but it is very realistic.

Lets take, for example an accurate earth map (not the one provided by firaxis). Say we were going to place resources on this map. Lets just toss out some vaguely fudgy numbers. Say we put 5 oil around the persian gulf, 3 the caspian/central asia area, 1 in romania, 1 in nigeria, 1 in siberia, 1 in the north sea (damn no offshore drilling ) 1 in alaska, 1 in texas, 1 in venezuela, and 1 in the east indies somewhere giving us around 16 for an expected 16 players on a huge map.
Now lets say we wanted to make the same map but as a size small. You cant just divide everything by two (since each of the dimensions are halved). You cant have half an oil resource in texas so instead you have none. What ive noticed is that if you made the earth map like civ3 generates its random maps youd have maybe 5 oils in the mideast and maybe 1 in one other random place. By scaling down instead of having 1/2 the worlds oil in one place you instead have 5/6 of the worlds oil in one place. The same applies to luxeries and other resources. Even though you see the same size clumps the real clumping factor has increased considerably.
I would suggest to firaxis that they scale the number and clumping of resources to reflect the actual number of players and the map size. Also id like to see at least 1 of each luxury on the map. I feel sorry for the poor Civlander that never has the chance of tasting fine Sonoma County wines!

	09-12-2001 13:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

From that Soren chat a while ago, there IS always at least one of every resource per Civ. In fact, EXACTLY one per Civ of the luxuries, at LEAST one per Civ of strategics.

If you aren't seeing them, they're out there somewhere; keep looking.

	11-12-2001 04:30									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Xentropy From that Soren chat a while ago, there IS always at least one of every resource per Civ. In fact, EXACTLY one per Civ of the luxuries, at LEAST one per Civ of strategics. If you aren't seeing them, they're out there somewhere; keep looking.

Well its a 2049 and Ive just launched the spaceship and control 2/3 of the map. It looks like the persians were holding on to both of the inscence (there were 2 inscence in game with 16 players). Its far into the future and the earth has been scoured top to bottom. Still no silk. I guess Its cotten undies for everyone!

	11-12-2001 04:51									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Xentropy From that Soren chat a while ago, there IS always at least one of every resource per Civ. In fact, EXACTLY one per Civ of the luxuries, at LEAST one per Civ of strategics. If you aren't seeing them, they're out there somewhere; keep looking.

not quite... there is at least one of each strategic resource per civ, but the # of luxuries can vary considerably.

	11-12-2001 06:10									#7
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I could handle scarce resources if you could see them earlier. IMO if you have the ability to go there you should be able to see the resource so you can plan for acquiring when you get the tech.

I just played a game on a huge map where I covered the entire continent and did not have coal, rubber, oil, alumunum, or uranium. I had all the right geography but not a scrap of the later resources. That would be okay but none of the AI had any extra to trade. You should be able to steal resources or trade for them with AI that does not know their value. Make them very hard to get or very expensive but not very hard and very expensive to the point of being impossible.

I find very little realistic about the resources part of the game. I will admit that this particular game was more scarce of resources than most.

Horses- ridiculous to keep trading for them. Once you get them, you breed them. Maybe they could put in a breeding farm improvement.

	11-12-2001 08:11									#8
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I find no reason that you should be able to see resources before you have the tech to see them, that's nonsense. Horses are never a problem for me because you get to see them early and you only need one source for the whole game(they never get depleted, which is realistic).

	11-12-2001 09:30									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis not quite... there is at least one of each strategic resource per civ, but the # of luxuries can vary considerably.

Doh! You said NEVER more than one luxury per Civ. My bad. It's a very long chat, and I'd read it a couple of weeks ago. Memory must be going in my old age (all of 23) ;>

I'm going to go see a doctor about getting this foot dislodged from my mouth now.