09-12-2001 22:56									#1
	Combatting War Weariness Get a bigger avatar today!

This is not a thread where I've come up with a solution for combatting war weariness. This is a thread asking for help on how to combat it because I'm at a loss after my most recent game.

I had the Americans declare war on me while in a democracy during the late Industrial era. They sent a massive amount of tanks into my territory. I tried hard to fend off the attack, meanwhile, I kept raising luxury rates and adding entertainers (the opposite of what really happens during a big war). Nonetheless, after about 15 turns my citizens were starving because I had to have so many entertainers just to quash the unrest so that I could keep them producing troops. Every turn I tried contacting ol' Abe to sue for peace, but he would have none of it.

"The Americans refused to see our emissary"

Perhaps the mistake I made was that I lost a couple of cities in the initial American attack and I invaded what used to be my territory to take them back. Nevertheless, it seems kind of hokey that the easiest way to beat a democracy is to declare war on them and then refuse their emissaries.

Anyone have any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong, or what a "democracy under duress" can do to protect its territory in a long war where the other side won't let you end the war, even if you want to?

	10-12-2001 00:58									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Unless you have many luxury resources, and a happy wonder or two, you shouldn't be waging war in a democracy.

	10-12-2001 02:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Pull all of your units, everywhere, inside your own borders. This helps a bit, and likely makes Abe more likely to feel peaceful. Get other civs to join in - not only will this make the computer more likely to negotiate for peace (your rep will take a hit, but that's better than six turns of anarchy/rioters burning down buildings) but might actually wear down your aggressive foe somewhat.

BTW, HalfLotus, Drefsab was declared on. I agree with not starting wars while in Democracy, but IMO it's poor game design when war weariness squishes you when you're being attacked. As it is, you don't really need to defeat a democracy's army to defeat it - just declare war, make angry noises, have a few little skirmishes, and wait for the anarchy. At least a turn advantage every time you do it.

-Sev

	10-12-2001 02:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks Sevorak...

Just think about the multiplayer implications that this little loophole has if you're a communist state and your neighbor is a democarcy

	10-12-2001 03:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

... and there's the reason I like Religious civs. I can switch to Commie whenever someone goes to war with me, smack 'em down, and go back to Democracy when I'm done.

	10-12-2001 04:35									#6
	AUGH! I can't take this!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay, I recovered from my little incident with the Americans and actually had 30 years of peace before the next war broke out. I'm going to attach the saved game... its right on the brink of war just before the Americans attack. I've got my border heavily defended, I did nothing to instigate the war. I had luxury set at 20%. Its my nation. "Oh ****, the Americans have attacked our border... lets rape and pillage the cities!!"

ARGH! What can I do? This isn't right!!

*edit*
oops, file is 1.7 meg, oh well, point is, I have all my troops inside cities on defense. The Americans attack me, I survive the assault losing no cities. When my turn begins, every single city goes into unrest and I have to take anywhere between 2 and 4 citizens off production in each city in order to avoid dropping off into anarchy. GAH! Is this residual from the last war?

	10-12-2001 06:30									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure residuals last 20 turns. I usually let the city governor handle keeping the populace quiet. I really have no problem with letting my cities starve; once the war is over, they grow very quickly anyway. In the meantime, as long as they're not in revolt, they're at least providing SOME good to my war machine. With mobilization I can usually pump out enough units to smash the offending civ in less than 50 turns or so. If my cities lose an average of 3 population points each, and I eliminate an opponent, I figure I'm not losing too much out of it. Especially if I let him survive, and extort him for the rest of the game.

Besides, you can always sell the cities you capture to friendly rivals so that you don't fall behind in research etc. =] Then their corruption increases, and they get to deal with defections.

	10-12-2001 06:31									#8
	Tired of ads?

.... but definitely consider dropping to communism. The bad effects are definitely worth the gain you get as long as you're at war. By the late modern era, I usually have a military between 200 and 300 units, so switching immediately saves me that much per turn in maintainance.

I like religious civs too. I REALLY reccomend the Egyptians.... fast UU, religious, and industrious.