10-12-2001 01:34									#1
	firaxis- do they really care about the game? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

this saturday, i finally made up my mind that they do care!!!
Jeffrey Morris has posted on the forums 3-4 times within that night, only to keep us inform on how things are going...(and asked to email him personally about problems with the patch).

quote: We'll be pounding on it all night, so if you find any problems, please email me directly at jmorris@firaxis.com.

dan has updated the site from his home,at his free time.
imho that is an example for devotion to the game and to the civ community!we all should be glad for that,and not to worry about future support for the game,they are civer's, like us

	10-12-2001 06:33									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

how are you still a chieftan if you joined back in the very begining?

	10-12-2001 06:35									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't know if this qualifies as 'Firaxis caring about the game.' I've seen a lot of terrible movies but the cleanup crew comes in quite nicely to try scrape the gum off the floor.

Doesn't make the movie any better after the fact.

	10-12-2001 06:44									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I reckon they do care, but only if they earn another billion on a XP pack.
Because there w i l l be one. The signs couldn't be clearer. Omitted techs, civs and units, lack of MP, no wonder movies etc. What we basically have here are but the sketchy outlines of a good game.

	10-12-2001 06:48									#6
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quote: What we basically have here are but the sketchy outlines of a good game.

Superbly said!

	10-12-2001 06:52									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I don't know if this qualifies as 'Firaxis caring about the game.' I've seen a lot of terrible movies but the cleanup crew comes in quite nicely to try scrape the gum off the floor. Doesn't make the movie any better after the fact.

That's like comparing apples and oranges yin!! If we all went in and saw the movie again after the cinema was cleaned....well, guess it wouldn't actually change the movie!

Yeah, I'm still pissed about the lack of wonder movies - it definately looks like they'll get tacked in on an expansion pack

	10-12-2001 06:55									#8
	Got spare money?

Well, that's my point, actually. The 'movie' can't be changed significantly enough at this point by a patch. The best we can hope for is some of the most annoying things (the gum on the floor) will be cleaned up before playing the next round.

Mind you, of course, having a clean theater is half the battle, but I think the true caring should have taken place during the writing, casting and filming, so to speak.

	10-12-2001 07:03									#9
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Mind you, of course, having a clean theater is half the battle, but I think the true caring should have taken place during the writing, casting and filming, so to speak.

I completly agree with you. Seeing as that they got a sizeable percentage of the game "right", it was a pity that Firaxis couldn't go the whole hog and do it 100% right. Also, considering the amount of time spent on development, the total number of new features (culture, "armies" and new winning condidtions) is rather disspointing. I'm thinking they actually reset the entire project after Reynolds left, so as that they couldn't be accused of stealing any of his ideas.

	10-12-2001 07:05									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I don't know if this qualifies as 'Firaxis caring about the game.' I've seen a lot of terrible movies but the cleanup crew....

yeap. yin not satisfied this time either....

	10-12-2001 07:07									#11
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quote: I'm thinking they actually reset the entire project after Reynolds left, so as that they couldn't be accused of stealing any of his ideas.

You may well be right, though I would think that Firaxis actually 'owned' any ideas Brian put in place prior to leaving. But there can be no doubt that many of the ideas Brian might have had in place never saw the light of day as Firaxis scrambled to meet a deadline without their star designer / programmer. (I now think of Sid as more like the Godfather -- no more pulling triggers, just giving directions now and then from some dark corner of the room.)

	10-12-2001 07:08									#12
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quote: yeap. yin not satisfied this time either....

Tell ya what, Markos: When the next patch gets released without the 'installer grabbing the wrong exe,' I'll give some thought to how much this shows Firaxis cares.

	10-12-2001 07:17									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Zanzin Also, considering the amount of time spent on development

2.5 years is not a long time for a game.... we've seen far worse....

quote: I'm thinking they actually reset the entire project after Reynolds left, so as that they couldn't be accused of stealing any of his ideas.

not exactly, but....

quote: [Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Hmmm... Civ3 actually started long before I was working for Firaxis but most of it was rewritten when Soren, Jacob Solomon and myself started in May 2000.

this is important especially for Soren Johnson as he is listed as the second designer after Jeff Briggs....
and the three mentioned above are half the programming team!

	10-12-2001 07:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Tell ya what, Markos: When the next patch gets released without the 'installer grabbing the wrong exe,' I'll give some thought to how much this shows Firaxis cares.

hmmmm remembering a negative issue when the discussion is about a positive thing. how is that called again?

	10-12-2001 08:21									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

By definition, a good patch fixes things. Sending out the wrong exe is the sign of not having "good" patches go out the door. Did they scramble to fix it? Sure. Should I giving a standing ovation for doing so?

Hell no.

	10-12-2001 08:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Sending out the wrong exe

are we talking about that?
No.

	10-12-2001 08:55									#17
	Remove this text

They only care about the games revenue.

	10-12-2001 09:20									#18
	Remove this text

"hmmmm remembering a negative issue when the discussion is about a positive thing. how is that called again?"

*raises hand*

Oooh I know!!

Is it called 'being a pessamistic whining crybaby' ?


Kimmie the despot

	10-12-2001 09:52									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, blah blah blah. We've heard that a thousands times, troll. Of course, we've also heard this 1,000 times: A number of the game's advertised features are missing or broken, so a patch is the least we can expect -- and a patch that is actually tested and released properly.

Take your pick.

A) I'll bend over and take any size load or;

B) I'll hold Firaxis to at least the bare minimum of professionalism and quality.

Seems many around here have already greased themselves up and made ready for A).

	10-12-2001 09:57									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: are we talking about that?

I could care less we "we" are talking about, since I am clearning talking about the whole tripe about 'Firaxis really caring about the game' doesn't go too far when we are talking about a much-needed and still incompetently done patch process.

Sorry, but when you don't even verify that the right exe is installed, there are some serious problems in saying how much these Firaxis folks 'care' about the game.

THAT'S what *I'M* talking about. Don't care to discuss that? Fine. Stay out of the discussion.

	10-12-2001 10:03									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by H Tower how are you still a chieftan if you joined back in the very begining?

It's really quite easy.

Some of us who have loved the Civilization series for a long time have also loved lurking for a long time .

BT

	10-12-2001 10:09									#22
	ANYWAY.......... Full PM-box? Change here!

Firaxis should sell a Civ 3 'Scenario Builder'.

Just import the raw FLC files, the GIFs, edit countless dialog boxes and voila! Instant Scenario Builder.

Anyone else have some constructive critisicm?

	10-12-2001 10:46									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by yin26 By definition, a good patch fixes things. Sending out the wrong exe is the sign of not having "good" patches go out the door. Did they scramble to fix it? Sure. Should I giving a standing ovation for doing so? Hell no.

I simply won't understand how can people come defend Firaxis in this issue.

A game sells thousands and thousands of copies. And after they patch a game they don't test it???? And it's not a deep late 2049 AD bug. It's only trying to run the game after patching!!!

Some people seem so fanatic (in the bad meaning of the word) that if they were Afghanistan they would be without doubt Talibans.

	10-12-2001 13:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 THAT'S what *I'M* talking about. Don't care to discuss that? Fine. Stay out of the discussion.

dear yin.
forums rule 101
rule #1: threads have topics
rule #2: it's not polite to threadjack
rule #3: it's even less polite to shout to people who want to discuss the original subject instead of your own agenda

	10-12-2001 13:38									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Dear Markos:

Common Sense 101:

When somebody starts a thread hyping up how much Firaxis cares about a game because the team is working 'so hard' on a patch, then the subject of the patch is part of the topic.

Simple, eh?

	10-12-2001 13:46									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by yin26 When somebody starts a thread hyping up how much Firaxis cares about a game because the team is working 'so hard' on a patch, then the subject of the patch is part of the topic.

so i assume that whenever the word "patch" is mentioned in a thread, you'll join in and remind everyone of firaxis' error....

	10-12-2001 14:12									#27
	Put an end to popups!

It was a sloppy error but I think the rush to get it out probably contributed more than anything.They probably have been pulling some allnighters......
Imagine how they felt.All excited and proud."We'll get this out a good day early.That will make some people happy"....then they read some feedback.....must have felt like.....like losing a modern armor to a pikeman!
Thank goodness they just didn't pack up for the weekend.
They want the game to be successful.They will do what they can to make it so.There is alot of green stuff at stake here.
They're having some rough spots but its getting smoother.

am I a dreamer?

	10-12-2001 14:15									#28
	Firaxis does care Support Apolyton

Paychecks, unit sales, patches, etc. notwithstanding.

The level of presence of those gents is exemplary.
There is no job that requires you to post from 3AM at home to defend it. That was love of the game. (or really sneaky PR )

K

	10-12-2001 16:26									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Actually, IMHO some people don't seem to grasp a distinction. That between company and individual.

I don't doubt that SOME people at Firaxis actually care about the game. If nothing else, a programmer would earn on the average twice by writing simple Visual Basic stuff to interface to a MS Access database, than by doing smart optimizations to a game. You have to really BELIEVE in something, to choose game programming instead of VB database stuff.

So I have zero doubt that at least the programming crew really put their soul into it. Which is likely also why you see them in the forums. Thumbs up to all of them. We really appreciate it, guys.

BUT then there's Firaxis as a company, and Sid Meier as the "legendary designer" at the top. And THAT part doesn't seem to care about anything any more, except milking a franchise for all the money it's worth. It looks to me like some parts were in fact deliberately ommited, so they can also sell an expansion pack or a Civ 4. I'm talking THAT kind of milking a franchise.

	10-12-2001 16:38									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: so i assume that whenever the word "patch" is mentioned in a thread, [Yin]'ll join in and remind everyone of firaxis' error....

Is a frog's ass watertight?