22-01-2002 02:07									#391
	Re: Re: Don't know if I'd classify it as a bug but... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Willem Captured Workers always take twice as long to complete a task as your own workers. The only exception as I understand is that, if you are an industrious civ, the bonus gets them working at the normal rate.

Thanks, Nice to know. Like I said just something I finaly had enough experiance to notice.

	22-01-2002 02:35									#392
	Re: Re: Re: Don't know if I'd classify it as a bug but... Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Harper Thanks, Nice to know. Like I said just something I finaly had enough experiance to notice.

Well I never noticed it myself since I always play the Americans, which is an industrious civ. It's just something I picked while hanging around here.

	22-01-2002 04:58									#393
	Strange settler loop bug! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I found a unique bug I think, in the sense I haven't heard about it before.

I'm using Civ3 with the 1.16f patch.
I'm playing on a gargantuan map with 80% water; almost the entire world is settled, but I get the "too many cities" error. So settlers can't be used.

In my ongoing war with the zulus, I raized a few of their cities before I discovered I couldn't found new ones, so there is a large gap between our borders. Now and then zulu settlers move around there.

During the turn shift, one particular zulu settler tried to found a city but was caught in a loop. The unit dropped its bag on the ground -- then started over, again and again.

I didn't keep the save game, and after I reloaded I decided to kill the settler (and resume the war).

	22-01-2002 12:16									#394
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Um I'm also getting the same failure as "Flight" when my cities goto disorder due to war the game locks up, xp closes the app!

I just read that we can disable the popup? I will check later today if that works!

Ps the game seems to lock up in the same year no-mater what year I reload! ...

Running 1.16f

Ok ... well yes it does work! hehe "Disable popup when disorder"

Last edited by Jorri on 23-01-2002 at 20:42

	22-01-2002 21:04									#395
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I'm using XP and I've never noticed any problems running Civilization III.

Another bug tho:
I contact another civ, put my tech on the table and ask what they are willing to pay for it. Sometimes it's a lot. If I try to change what they are offering, whether it's in their favor or not, I get the message that they would never accept such a deal. And indeed; they *will* accept a deal they proposed themselves, not a more favourable one that the player suggests.

	22-01-2002 23:17									#396
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thats not necessarily a bug. Some things they just won't trade even if they may seem cheaper to you. They won't exceed their gold per turn income limit even if they have plenty of cash to cushion the loss for 20 turns. If you think just how maddengly unreasonable some real countries or organisations can be, Civ seems positively benign by comparison.

	23-01-2002 00:19									#397
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Thats not necessarily a bug. Some things they just won't trade even if they may seem cheaper to you. They won't exceed their gold per turn income limit even if they have plenty of cash to cushion the loss for 20 turns.

I think you misunderstood... I've encountered this bug myself. Here is an example:

[1] I ask the Romans what they are willing to give me for Electricity

[2] They offer:

• World Map
  
• 25 gold/turn
  
• 150 gold

	23-01-2002 01:15									#398
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by bloodysmurf I think you misunderstood... I've encountered this bug myself. Here is an example: [1] I ask the Romans what they are willing to give me for Electricity [2] They offer: World Map 25 gold/turn 150 gold [3] I remove World Map from their offer [4] Suddenly "they would never take such a deal" [5] Unless for some reason they want me to take the map, this is a bug. And even then, I've seen the same result for removing the lump sum offer, which makes absolutely no sense. -ollie-

Yes Wall Street brokers they're not. My example:

I came across a civ that wanted to do a straight swap for World maps, and I decided to see what he'd offer in negotiations. Not only did I get his World Map, but I got Mapmaking and 530 gold. Well twist my arm!!!

	23-01-2002 01:20									#399
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Willem Yes Wall Street brokers they're not. My example: I came across a civ that wanted to do a straight swap for World maps, and I decided to see what he'd offer in negotiations. Not only did I get his World Map, but I got Mapmaking and 530 gold. Well twist my arm!!!

thats not a bug
They'll usually ask for a straight swap to see if you're gullable enough to give them what they want at hardly any cost to them.

They also seem to initiate diplomacy when they really value something. When they demand it they'll often want it so much they will declare war - thus you can sell it for a high price if they dont.

Of course sometimes they ask for something silly like territory map and 15 gold or they'll declare war. Not worth going to war over that now is it

	23-01-2002 01:32									#400
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Flight thats not a bug They'll usually ask for a straight swap to see if you're gullable enough to give them what they want at hardly any cost to them. They also seem to initiate diplomacy when they really value something. When they demand it they'll often want it so much they will declare war - thus you can sell it for a high price if they dont. Of course sometimes they ask for something silly like territory map and 15 gold or they'll declare war. Not worth going to war over that now is it

I never said it was a bug, I just thought it was stupid. But I certainly didn't mind it at the time though. I'll definitely be sure not to automatically accept what to me seems a fair deal. Normally I would have just agreed, but this time I decided to see what would happen instead.

Is it just me or does Cleopatra tend to drive a hard bargain? Of all the civs I've traded with, she seems to be the toughest to deal with. Or maybe I've just been catching her while she's on her period.

	23-01-2002 10:44									#401
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Thats not necessarily a bug. Some things they just won't trade even if they may seem cheaper to you. They won't exceed their gold per turn income limit even if they have plenty of cash to cushion the loss for 20 turns. If you think just how maddengly unreasonable some real countries or organisations can be, Civ seems positively benign by comparison.

I meant the same as bloodysmurf talks about below your post. If I ask them what they offer and they put "190 gold per tun" on the table, they will accept it, but if I change the amount to 175 per turn they will have none of it. Personally I think the amount they put on the table might actually be too much, and that could be the heart of the bug. If the advisor is right, they *shouldn't* be able to accept that offer.

Btw, did someone say cities were taken out of the bargaining table in 1.16f? I got a zulu city as part of a peace treaty the other night.

	23-01-2002 12:48									#402
	Re: v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Hey guys. We're trying to track down any problems that are new to v1.16f (the second one) and things listed in the readme.txt that don't work. We already know about the title boxes drawing on advisor screens for resolutions higher than 1024x768 and workers on automation not piling on like they used to.


A problem I hear about a lot, and personally experience, is the fact that Automate Workers, don't destroy Improvements mode does not work post patch. I tell a bunch of workers using that order, and the computer still sends them off making irrigated squares into mines.
I have read, in 1BigCommunity as well as other forums besides this one, many people having the same problem. I can have 150 workers out there, it makes for long turns having to tell each one what to do, even if I stagger them on completing their orders.

	23-01-2002 19:51									#403
	Re: Re: v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by kring [QUOTE] Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS Hey guys. We're trying to track down any problems that are new to v1.16f (the second one) and things listed in the readme.txt that don't work. We already know about the title boxes drawing on advisor screens for resolutions higher than 1024x768 and workers on automation not piling on like they used to. A problem I hear about a lot, and personally experience, is the fact that Automate Workers, don't destroy Improvements mode does not work post patch. I tell a bunch of workers using that order, and the computer still sends them off making irrigated squares into mines. I have read, in 1BigCommunity as well as other forums besides this one, many people having the same problem. I can have 150 workers out there, it makes for long turns having to tell each one what to do, even if I stagger them on completing their orders.

The "Video Mode" setting doesn't work for me in the .INI file. But KeepRes does, so this isn't a problem for me. I don't have a box drawing problem on the advisor's screen, but there is a box drawing problem around city names and settler cultural influence boxes...they're about 25% lower on the screen than they should be. And finally, automate workers DOES WORK fine. If you automate the worker with "A" it will change irrigation to mines, but if you automate with "SHIFT-A" it will not touch any existing improvements. I read this either in the user guide or the readme file. I don't understand what you're saying.

	23-01-2002 21:10									#404
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The manual says Shift A will not modify existing improvements.
Pre-patch, this was true. Post-patch, Shift A WILL modify improvements. I have read too many posts that agree with this. In fact, it was because of such a post, I tried this option myself. Sure enough, they were irrigating my mines, and mining my irrigation. It happened with everyone I Shift A. That is what I am talking about!

	23-01-2002 22:20									#405
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by kring The manual says Shift A will not modify existing improvements. Pre-patch, this was true. Post-patch, Shift A WILL modify improvements. I have read too many posts that agree with this. In fact, it was because of such a post, I tried this option myself. Sure enough, they were irrigating my mines, and mining my irrigation. It happened with everyone I Shift A. That is what I am talking about!

Then I have a buggy patch 1.16f, because I know 100% that shift-A does what it is supposed to do on my machine. In fact, I played one game with Shift-A specifically because of what I read in the book. In the next game I played, I had used shift-A throughout the game, and got the behavior I expected. When I captured a level 10 city and razed it, getting 10 workers out of it, I use "A" to automate just these 10 workers. Sure enough, they started changing my improvements, which started starving my level 23 cities. I put a stop to that right away, and wherever I saw a worker changing the improvements, I activated them and then used shift-A on them. That stopped the improvements from changing, just like it should have.

In the current game I am playing, I am using "A" to automate my workers from the start, and they are creating mines on grassland where I would have told them to irrigate. But I'm seeing if this makes a difference in the cities over the long haul.

	23-01-2002 22:38									#406
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Whistler In the current game I am playing, I am using "A" to automate my workers from the start, and they are creating mines on grassland where I would have told them to irrigate. But I'm seeing if this makes a difference in the cities over the long haul.

If you go to the Editor and remove the mining bonus for grassland and plains, your workers will never build a mine on prime farmland, nor will the other civs. Now if I could just stop them from planting forests instead.

	24-01-2002 00:47									#407
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I haven't seen this one up yet, so here goes:

Sometimes the sound for Cavalry doesn't play properly. The gunshots can't be heard. When I first start using Cavalry there's no problem but usually sometime in the middle of the industrial age all you can hear is the horses grunting. After it starts doing it, it never reverts back to normal for the rest of the game.

Haven't noticed a similiar problem with any other units.

	24-01-2002 01:09									#408
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha I haven't seen this one up yet, so here goes: Sometimes the sound for Cavalry doesn't play properly. The gunshots can't be heard. When I first start using Cavalry there's no problem but usually sometime in the middle of the industrial age all you can hear is the horses grunting. After it starts doing it, it never reverts back to normal for the rest of the game. Haven't noticed a similiar problem with any other units.

Did you by chance make any changes in the Editor just before it happened? Occasionally I'll find that after I've made an alteration, some of my sound effects will be somewhat off. I notice it the most with the footfall sounds, and the Knight's attacking sound. I'm not exactly sure that's what's causing it, but I have a sneaking suspicion it is.

	24-01-2002 02:15									#409
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Firaxis,

During a game I was playing CivIII stopped with an error condition. Attached are 2 saves where this happens. The first was during the game in 1565 AD, which if loaded, will crash the game after Enter is pressed to begin the next turn. The other is just before the end of the game in 1788. The crash occurs after the spaceship win, when replaying the game using the replay feature. The time in the game where CivIII crashes is about the same as when the 1565 crash occurred. The patch was in use for this game, so it is version 1.16f

Others have been reporting late game crashes, so here is an example you can work from to try and determine why this happens.

Attachment: errors.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	24-01-2002 06:13									#410
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

One thing that several persons have brought up is that cities doesn't directly reclaim the terrain tile after pollution has been cleaned up. That's a niggle.

Another is the growth/starve-cycle for cities reaching their limit in growth. Unless one really micro-manage :o) so that the total food production ends on an even number, the city will forever be locked in that cycle. Perhaps the game could calculate the maximum size possible and let the city keep that size, meaning the last citizen survives on one food. Normally, these cities are beyond size 20 so it won't upset any balances I think.

	24-01-2002 08:49									#411
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by aburtt I no longer have the option to occupy a conquered city. It always destroys the city. This has only happened after I installed the patch. Is there an order that causes this or is this a bug?

What size cities is this happening on? I have read that post patch, any city that has not developed culture will be automatically razed. Apparently, people were following the settlers and waiting for them to build a city, then attacking it to capture it. People were using this tactic as a cheap way to get a readymade city. So, now it has to have some culture to it. I think it has to have built any city improvement if I remember right.

I had this happen with a city I captured that had been around for 20+ years. I was at war with that civ, and when I captured the city, Bam, gone.

	24-01-2002 08:54									#412
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by justjake73 Does altering the game affect current games I am playing? Which file is changed to increase startegic resources?

No, altering the game is not supposed to change any current games you are playing.
Go to your start menu, then down to wherever you saved Civ 3 when you installed it. You will reach the sub menu that gives you the choices of Play Civ 3 (or something to that effect) and Civ3 Edit. Choose Civ 3 Edit. You will want to save this file with a new name, so that in case you need it, you will still have the original file.

	24-01-2002 09:06									#413
	Re: Automated Workers Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Master2000 I use CTRL+A on all my workers. With the patch, when there is no more to do for the workers they go to a city and sleep. That's good. If a square gets polluted 2 workers will wake and start working on the polluting square. Well, that's good too but I must ask why only 2 workers will run out and work when I have 10 other lazy workers just sleeping in my cities. Shouldn't all non working workers run to this square? I think it takes 12 workers to clean a polluted square in 1 turn. The number of worker turns to clean up pollution depends upon the terrain, the easier terrain takes 4 worker turns (grassland), medium (hills) is 8 worker turns, and difficult (like mountains) is 12 worker turns. And I still miss the old sentry command...

So do I.

It is too easy on a decent size map to miss something if you don't keep a unit active in the area. I have a dozen active units just so I will notice things: like my cultural boundary shrinking.

	24-01-2002 21:02									#414
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Dave, any chance you guys will have the AI consider its settler/escort combo as units and not something invisible? What I mean is, they will violate borders as if they think their settler and escort are invisible to you, and the only thing you can get out of demanding a withdrawal is a declaration of war (sometimes). Most of the time they agree to withdrawing, so they obviously know they are violating your territory, but they still continue through your empire... Even if you get them to agree a second time to withdraw (which is when for the human player, his units are automatically moved to the NEAREST tile outside the border), his units still continue deeper into your borders...

	24-01-2002 21:20									#415
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by kring No, altering the game is not supposed to change any current games you are playing. Go to your start menu, then down to wherever you saved Civ 3 when you installed it. You will reach the sub menu that gives you the choices of Play Civ 3 (or something to that effect) and Civ3 Edit. Choose Civ 3 Edit. You will want to save this file with a new name, so that in case you need it, you will still have the original file.

The game doesn't like to have some things changed midstream. For instance, if you add an improvement, you won't be able to load your save game anymore. As for resources apperance, making changes in the middle of a game won't make any difference. These are placed on the map right from the first, and won't be affected. Some of the minor parameters, i.e. Irrigation bonuses will take effect though.

As for renaming the civ3mod.bic file, there was a stern warning yesterday by Dan Magaha not do so. Your best bet is to create another folder, and copy it into there as is.

	25-01-2002 07:11									#416
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As always, make a backup of your civ3mod.bic before doing something you are unsure of. Personally I right-click on the file and zip it automatically (winzip 8 can do that). Now you don't have to worry at all about screwing up your current game.

	28-01-2002 20:42									#417
	Gimme Back Suez and Panama... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey Jeff, gimme back Suez and Panama, ... a too difficult voyage for my ships sourrounding Africa and America. At least let my workers build channels when technollogy allows it.

And of course, if you need a good world map call Marla Singer in one of the Civ III Files section of this same forums.

	28-01-2002 22:50									#418
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Willem Did you by chance make any changes in the Editor just before it happened? Occasionally I'll find that after I've made an alteration, some of my sound effects will be somewhat off. I notice it the most with the footfall sounds, and the Knight's attacking sound. I'm not exactly sure that's what's causing it, but I have a sneaking suspicion it is.

This happened during a game with no changes made in the editor, on a random map, with no changes made during the game. And it happens every time too.

Must be something on my end since it's only happening to me (and ONLY with cavalry, which is wierd). It's not a huge deal, but it IS strange to attack with cavalry and all they appear to do is jump up and down while their horses grunt

	29-01-2002 08:18									#419
	Re: Gimme Back Suez and Panama... Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Kramsib Hey Jeff, gimme back Suez and Panama, ... a too difficult voyage for my ships sourrounding Africa and America. At least let my workers build channels when technollogy allows it. And of course, if you need a good world map call Marla Singer in one of the Civ III Files section of this same forums.

You may have noticed there are often very thin strips of land separating lakes from oceans. Not a full tile, just a strip.

Yes, canals are needed.

And I assume Sid never heard of the Panama Canal as a Great Wonder?


I also want back the Eifel Tower Wonder and the Statue of Liberty, also.

	29-01-2002 08:22									#420
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's a bug for you. Or just more AI idiocy.

I cut a deal with the Trade Advisor. The civ I'm trading with seems happy, but I throw in FREE OF CHARGE a luxury item - dyes. Just to improve relations.

I get a message: "they would never accept such a deal".

Maybe they're allergic to dyes??