11-12-2001 02:00									#31
	Re: movement is real slow now.. Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Redstar when using shift-P it can take more than 11 seconds for a worker to travel across a large map. (about 1+ second per map scroll). It takes the same huge time with show auto moves off or on. ( i use a nvidia geoforce 2 and had no probs before patch. ) ------------- Also..as huge commie empire, i now lose 1300 in income[versus pre-patch]. I think the flat tax unfairly gouges on this scale. i could be wrong. Anyway, i thought the patch was supposed to lower corruption). Keep up the great work tho. hi

Would it be possible for you (or anyone else experiencing this problem) to post a zipped save game in which it is happening? I'd like to track it down.... thanks.

	11-12-2001 02:20									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Im in 1280x1024 video mode, so im getting the black boxes, lowered settler radius... but im guessing you've already figured that one out, so

My other problem is Civ3 crashed for the first time yesterday. It was late at nite (prolly did me a favour ), so i didnt get any details, but if it happens again ill get them.
Just to let you know its crashing

	11-12-2001 02:52									#33
	I wish all I could complain about is gameplay/AI Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

...but since I installed the patch I have had 8 crashes, all with new games (not old save games). I had no crashes with the out of the box version.

On the last crash, the game gives me DataIO Operation System Error: RPLE errors and will not load my newest save games.

I've attached a listing from Norton CrashGuard which trapped all the crashes and logged them.

I'm running Win98SE UK
AMD K6-III 450MHz
128MB RAM
Matrox G400 16MB
Creative SB Live! Value
MS Intellipoint Mouse
Diamond Supra 56K modem
A-Open DVD-9632 (my install drive for the game)
Crative Blaster 1210e CD-RW

I have also logged this fault at Infogrames.

Attachment: civ iii crashes.txt
This has been downloaded 46 time(s).

	11-12-2001 03:04									#34
	Remove this text

Hi Firaxis guys,

I pointed out some bugs I saw in the patch before, but none of them recurred once I had the correct version running. Unfortunately, this required uninstalling and reinstalling the game...

I had one comment about difficulty scaling after the implementation of the new tech upper cap. Given that the AI is less efficient at researching technologies than the human player at lower difficulty levels, and that the cost of a technology is dependent on the number of other civilizations that have it, is it not conceivable that the higher cap might invert difficulty levels? That is, might it not be harder (perhaps significantly so) to advance technologically at Chieftain level, where you're virtually assured of being the only one working on a given tech, than on Warlord or Regent? After all, on Chieftain the AI seems to give very low priority to tech, so they may be in 40 turn mode the whole game, or at least a good piece of it. This means that the human player rapidly and permanently outstrips the AI, but then slows anyway because techs are so expensive. This would be particularly bad, because the typical chieftain level player will likely not have high proficiency with the editor...

I'm attempting an experiment on this right now, but so many other issues go game performance (geography, etc.) that I'm not sure I can get a definitive answer that way... Firaxians, was this possibility considered? Could you find a way to scale technology turn caps by difficulty levels?

	11-12-2001 03:19									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

I've posted this in about three other threads and there are a couple of other people having the same problem. I also sent you an e-mail Jeff, but you're probably swamped with mail, so here's the problem:

I installed the "updated" patch but can't get the game to run. All it does is hang with the civilization3.exe taking up about 5 megs and another temporary thread running. I'm running Windows XP Professional. I had no problems before installing the patch. Can someone help me? I even tried reinstalling. Reinstalled the game ran fine, installed the patch it doesn't run. I tried turning off Win9x/ME compatibility this morning and it ran, but was getting the same black screen (monitor goes into power-saving mode) that made me turn it on. Please help.

	11-12-2001 03:37									#36
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh Here is another oddity on the Domestic Advisor pop-up. She messes up the titles alot. Here she called me "Mr." during a presidency. But she didn't call me "Mr. Lincoln"... just "Mr." All for now. -FMK.

This isn't new to v1.16f, it's present in v1.07f, and FWIW, I think it's behaving as expected. I *think* it's using your title to address you, and that title just happens to be Mr. Substitute "King" for "Mr." and you get the idea. I guess it just sounds weird to see "Mr." by itself.


Dan

	11-12-2001 03:38									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I too have experienced the mysterious, "AI trading techs on my turn syndrome." I wonder if the AI somehow already had the tech but can choose not to make it available? I realize that its a stretch but it was all that I could think of. I agree that this stinks, especially if they are trading on the Human's turn.

FIRAXIS: Please either offer some explanation of this AI behavior or announce that you are aware of it. It's quite frustrating diplomatically.

Thanks

	11-12-2001 03:42									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Posted by the Deornwulf-meister: I am having a problem with the sound - I turn it off and still get sound for movement and combat. I know that my sound board sucks which is why I play games in total silence. It seems that Disable all sound does not mean disable ALL sound in the sound preferences box. Is this a bug or my own TDB problem?

In the CIV3.INI file, you can TURN ALL SOUND OFF BEFORE THE GAME LOADS
TYPE IN THIS TEXT FILE, right after the opening brackets (case sensitive). Be sure it gets it's own line, and DON'T include the parenthesis.

"NoSound=1"

	11-12-2001 03:57									#39
	my file is just a bit too big to attach. Increase Your PM Length

"Would it be possible for you (or anyone else experiencing this problem) to post a zipped save game in which it is happening? I'd like to track it down.... thanks."

The files i have are just a bit too big (607k) for the max allowable attachment.



edit: KO file sent. Hopefully it will prove most useful and i won't look foolish.

thanks! =)

EDIT: my time 11/11/2001 4:35am:

WOWSERS but that is service! They already fixed it. YEAH
Now i can hardly wait for the next patch.

Last edited by Redstar on 11-12-2001 at 14:35

	11-12-2001 04:14									#40
	New patch won't work... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm having the same problem as Whohangs...

The game won't run after downloading the new patch, and it won't let me reinstall or uninstall the game...So I'm stuck.

I'm running XP Home with 1.4 Ghz Athlon and 512 RAM

If someone has found a fix or work around, or hell...even a way to reinstall it, so I can play the out of the box version...

	11-12-2001 04:14									#41
	Re: my file is just a bit too big to attach. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Redstar "Would it be possible for you (or anyone else experiencing this problem) to post a zipped save game in which it is happening? I'd like to track it down.... thanks." The files i have are just a bit too big (607k) for the max allowable attachment. Sorry about that.

Could you send the attachment to my e-mail address? (sjohnson@firaxis.com) thanks...

	11-12-2001 04:53									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I would like to be able to upgrade units inside of armys. I can agree with not being able to unload these units since I guess the makeup and tactical phisosiphy of an army should not change (the 101st airborne arent gonna become a unit of tanks, but maybe they would become some super-high tech orbital para troopers or something)

Also wouldnt it make since to have fleets (naval "armys) that work on the ocean and have the same capabilities of an army on the sea.

	11-12-2001 05:11									#43
	Got spare money?

I encountered a minor bug first game after the patch install. I'd discovered writing, but declined to create any embassies since I was low on gold. I tried clicking on my capital later and could not. I loaded some pre-patch save games I'd had left and they worked fine. I finally discovered the Ctrl-E would bring up the embassy menu. Further new games have worked fine.

	11-12-2001 05:15									#44
	Tired of ads?

Another safedisk problemo.

Ok, brief chain of events:

1) V 1.07F gave me lock up on startup problems (cd spins and locks up)
2) V 1.07Fa let me play the game just fine.
3) V 1.16F(current as of today) again gave me the same lock up.
4) Even after un and reinstalling from scratch.

One thing I did notice is that the Infrogrames folder still has several megs of files in it after uninstalation, and NOT just modded files (i.e. "civ3.exe_old) and saved games.

??? should I try deleting the whole Infrogrames folder after uninstallation ???

	11-12-2001 05:42									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The 'all random' button in the ''chose oponents" screen (when starting a new game) doesn't work anymore.

	11-12-2001 05:44									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I don't know what to do. I've downloaded the new patch a third time. I've uninstalled both the patch and then the main game. Reinstalled both and still have the same problem. If I run in Compatibility mode Win98/ME (the mode I ran in originally that worked without the patch) I get the locked up process. If I run in any other mode or without the Compatibility mode the screen goes into power saving mode. Is there a fix for this? A workaround? Is this being looked into? This is kinda bugging me. The game runs fine in compatibility mode Win98/ME without the patch. I'm running in Windows XP.

	11-12-2001 06:22									#47
	Nuke VS SDI Bug Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This is a bug that I have only seen once but it was post 1.16f-new. I was attacked by an ICBM and my SDI stopped the attack. ( I got to see the impact but then no pollution or damage to the city). When I opened the city up to bomb a nearby city none of my air units are there. I chalked it up to a bug and attacked the nearby city with a ground assault only. Then at the end of the turn, my air units become usable... they are invisible... no graphics but I get the proper stuff in the info box and the buttons and sure enough I can attack with my (Now SUPER) stealth bombers and (simply invisible) bombers. The next turn.. same thing again, however I moved them successfully with the re-base command to another city where they promptly and correctly appeared. Note, the units were also not visible in the right click menu from the map screen. They were also not visible or accessible from the military advisor screen. If it matters, the city was only a few turns old and had a pop of 1 and a culture of 0 at the time of the attack.

In the end... gameplay wasn't radically affected, but others may not be as lucky.

Thanks for looking into this.

Kevin

	11-12-2001 06:33									#48
	Tired of ads?

Tech Trading

As far as I can tell the computer automatically trades techs and contacts to all the CIVs in the game as long as they have contact with each other.

So if you trade techs or not the computer civs will basically have all the techs from each other. Once you trade to one civ they will trade it to any civ they have contact with.

So, I was trying it on Diety....

By turn 5 the Germans had 5 spearman units about 5 turns from there capital approaching my territory.

I was the Americans and had contacted a couple races early, traded techs, but by turn 10 the Germans had completed Iron Working and Writing and I still needed the wheel...

	11-12-2001 06:56									#49
	patch bugs galore! Suffering from ads?

I am working on a LONG list of problems that the patch caused and many not addressed. I have had 3 games right in a row crash for different reasons. One was I had to choose for next research, I entered the Industrial age at this point, fatal error. Another game I was building city in valid location game crashed fatally. Another game I tried to build on northern point of my land at pole of world the game crashed.
The Governor does not function properly. If you go to the production screen, set up how you want the default to be, go back later and you have no way of knowing what or how it was set up. Very confusing indeed.
Workers seem to go about aimlessly but I never tried the shift command. I use the icons at the bottom of screen. That is another issue you have way to many commands for everything which also makes it confusing.
My last game I had settlers, hoplites and workers disappear after saving, quiting and reloading.
There is a typo when right clicking to upgrade units.
Game will not let you switch wonders from one city to another if you want. There are many reasons why you would want this.
Grids do not stay on when set to be on.

I had to uninstall the game and then install the patch to get rid of wierd things from happening. However the above things are just a few. I will send you a better list but from I see if you generate a large map such as 220x220 230x230 the game may crash later on. I have a high end computer and had these problems over and over. I have not been able to finish a game yet for numerous reasons. Most of the time it was a crash for unknown reasons.

D.G.

	11-12-2001 07:02									#50
	delete all folders Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by cassembler Another safedisk problemo. Ok, brief chain of events: 1) V 1.07F gave me lock up on startup problems (cd spins and locks up) 2) V 1.07Fa let me play the game just fine. 3) V 1.16F(current as of today) again gave me the same lock up. 4) Even after un and reinstalling from scratch. One thing I did notice is that the Infrogrames folder still has several megs of files in it after uninstalation, and NOT just modded files (i.e. "civ3.exe_old) and saved games. ??? should I try deleting the whole Infrogrames folder after uninstallation ???

I deleting all the folders the game seems to leave some alone for some reason. I still am having problems with lock ups even on high end PC with 256 megs of ram. More beta testing was what this game needed. I have had more crashes with this game then any other I have played I hate to say. Have you had units disappear totally?

Desert Dog

	11-12-2001 09:05									#51
	Unavoidable Crash Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Playing Under Windows 2000, with the updated for win2k version of the 1.16f patch.

I had a trade going with the aztecs.
They got in war with the Iroquois.
I think the Iroquois destroyed their trade routes because it hadn't been 20 turns when I got the "We lost our supply of dyes" message.
Then the game crashed.
I had saved a couple of turns back.
Reloaded.
When I regot the message, the game crashed again.
I reloaded a third time, and the same thing happenned.

Now I saved the game at the end of the turn just before it happens.
I have attached it here.

Attachment: lincoln of the americans, 630 ad.rar
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	11-12-2001 09:14									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ognid Tech Trading As far as I can tell the computer automatically trades techs and contacts to all the CIVs in the game as long as they have contact with each other. So if you trade techs or not the computer civs will basically have all the techs from each other. Once you trade to one civ they will trade it to any civ they have contact with. So, I was trying it on Diety.... By turn 5 the Germans had 5 spearman units about 5 turns from there capital approaching my territory. I was the Americans and had contacted a couple races early, traded techs, but by turn 10 the Germans had completed Iron Working and Writing and I still needed the wheel...

It's probably done to dicourage tech boreker strategy, where human players buys tech from strongest AI, and then sells it to the weaker AI.

	11-12-2001 09:17									#53
	Suffering from ads?

The patch is working fine for me so far. My only complaint is that Shift-P now won't send more than 2 workers to any polluted squre and this is driving me nuts! I think it shouldn't be too hard to use the time needed to clean up a polluted square to decide how many workers should be assigned to the task. In fact, this could be done for any worker job instead of a fixed cap on how many workers should work on a given square when automated. Thanks for your attention.

	11-12-2001 10:16									#54
	Here's a new one... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Here's one I haven't seen reported yet:

When bargaining with the AI, If I say "What will you offer for The Republic?" (for example, could be anything) The AI comes back with his offer, if I alter the offer at all into a realm that the opponent cannot satisfy, (i.e. 1 gold per turn too many) when I reset the item to the originally offerred amount, the AI will no longer accept that deal. But if I then clear the queue and ask again "What will you offer for The Republic?" the AI will give the EXACT SAME deal and be perfectly willing to accept it. This surely must be a bug.

I am using the 1st 1.16 patch in WinME on a Celeron 733.

Thanks

	11-12-2001 10:28									#55
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The problem with techtrading AI, is not that it trades techs and contacts in a superfast way, nor that the AI start with more techs and get techs/contacts faster than the human player. You can call that cheating, but it is "fair" in the sense that at least they either start with the tech, trade the tech/contact fair and square with someone else, or acquire the tech/contact by exploring the map. Ognid and Player1, you do not mention the real problem, although you might mean it right.

The problem is that civ A can mysteriously "give" civ B a contact/tech, that the human player just gave civ A (through trading), before the human player hits "END TURN".

I realize that this might be a counter to the tech-whoring "strategy", but if it IS that, it is just too obvious a cheat by the AI. As I said I can live with the extra units, reduced costs and the prooduction bonuses. But what is the point of trading with civ A, if by that trade the score is like this:

You pay 1-2 techs and gold + get 1 tech
Civ A gets the 1-2 techs and gold from you, and pays one tech to you.
Civ B, C, D get the same tech that you get for free, the same second you finish the above deal.

I would never make that trade! It is that easy! Since now, I never know whether this is the possible scenario of ANY tech trade, why trade mid to cutting edge tech with anyone AT ALL?

If this really is an attempt to counter tech-whoring, then making the AI less tech/contact hungry (willing to pay less, especially gold per turn deals), and/or much more aggressive with the trading of techs/contacts (BUT IN THEIR OWN TURN!!) would be much better solution.

Still, PLEASE, I would like a response from Firaxis. It doesn´t have to be much. Just say that it was a design decision (meaning I go back to pre-patch), or that the game in its patched state, should not be doing this.

	11-12-2001 12:11									#56
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by player1 It's probably done to dicourage tech boreker strategy, where human players buys tech from strongest AI, and then sells it to the weaker AI.

erm, and why? i think this is a good way to handle the game peacefully (this is just making use of the market - buying and selling)

what really makes me angry is , that firaxis try to deactivate any strategic possibility. only thing we seem to be allowed to is shuffling units around and building temples.

older/other civ-versions gave as much more possibilities.

i didnt liked the IFE-thing, and never used it, but:

wheres the point in not allowing those weired people to micromanage 40 workers for a few shields more? when someone wants to cheat in a singleplayer game -wheres the problem????

using some exploits is one thing, but if you really want to disable cheating, than please deactivate all mods and the editor. cheating this way is much more efficient.

but everything that was changed to prevent players from using some minor exploits also punishes all other players.

more than that: with the incredible AI-cheating, former non-cheaters are forced to use exploits(making the right special units stronger and so on). just because the AI-cheating makes us EXTREMLY angry

*gnarf*

:-/

hanZ

	11-12-2001 12:16									#57
	Get a bigger avatar today!

patch announcement and readme.txt stated that we can now build palace and spaceship parts in one city only. does that mean that the ship parts can only be built in once city at a time or that no two cities can build the same spaceship part(s)? i loaded my old game on new patch and finished it off without much difference as to the spaceship building...it was too easy....

it was great to see the tech costs going up and it provided for a more interesting and challenging game. one thing, though, UN still looks a bit cheap given its benefits, and the diplo victory now seems even 'lighter' in the light of the somewhat harder space victory (tech costs going up). yeah, i know, editor can fix that.....

	11-12-2001 14:34									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

after playing for an hour last night ,i noticed several things:

-i really dont know if its a bug or not,but if i do a "pillage" action (tried that with a modern tank and mech inf unit)
they do an attack animation (only in one direction-west, or is it a north west,i just dont remember.)
is it meant to do that animation??or is it a bug?

-another bug(?)- suddenly, i got enemy units from no where all around my territory,and i found out that the show enemy/friends animation was turned off, so apparently i didn't saw them coming. got into preference screen and turned all animations on (as i recall they were all on since the beginning ),got back in the game but animation for friends/enemy moves was still off,i had to fight with that option several times,going in and out of the pref screen, until he finely excepted and stayed with my preference choice..

-there is a slight delay in units sounds.the effect activates after the unit has already moved, or in the middle of moving.

few positive things-
-city disorder pop up-thanx a lot, it really helps!
- getting much more popup windows after the patch (AI trade request,empire status according to other civilizations) and the overall feeling is that the AI is more involved and interact then before.
-i really cant put my finger on it but is there a change in some graphics??like trees or something,or is it just me needing a good sleep,and a pair of glasses??,i realy think that there is a slight graphic improvement then before.
--gray transparent line under the doted border color-its really makes them strong looking and easy to see on various land types,good improvement.

and a little question here-can i modify or change the shadow under the pop numbers? (i asked and mentioned that before in several threads, but haven't got any answer. its really really REALLY the thing that upset me the most after the patch,maybe because i do graphics for a living and i am more aware of graphic glitch).

oh man, i really love this game!

Last edited by m_m_x on 11-12-2001 at 14:39

	11-12-2001 16:41									#59
	Re: I wish all I could complain about is gameplay/AI Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by PN ...but since I installed the patch I have had 8 crashes, all with new games (not old save games). I had no crashes with the out of the box version. On the last crash, the game gives me DataIO Operation System Error: RPLE errors and will not load my newest save games. I've attached a listing from Norton CrashGuard which trapped all the crashes and logged them. I'm running Win98SE UK AMD K6-III 450MHz 128MB RAM Matrox G400 16MB Creative SB Live! Value MS Intellipoint Mouse Diamond Supra 56K modem A-Open DVD-9632 (my install drive for the game) Crative Blaster 1210e CD-RW I have also logged this fault at Infogrames.

Just a little word on the "old" AMD processors. They are not 100% compatible as they were touted. The K-6 III has less problems true, but still not very stable. I owned one myself had many problems. (I build computers for a living in case you are wondering where I am coming from Good luck!)

Desert Dog

	11-12-2001 17:10									#60
	Get a bigger avatar today!

With respect to the shaded population numbers and the origin of their change having to do with starving Romans...

It is understandable that the numbers need some shading. Particularly given the graphical presentation of the city info boxes. No one is complaining about the shading per se.

What we are saying is that the shading of the numbers is rendered INCORRECTLY, thus giving a good idea a bad result. Let me show you what we mean:

Bad (and current) shading:



Good (and needed) shading:



Can you see the difference?