12-12-2001 23:49									#121
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Errr...It's a miracle maybe!?! I have no bugs really, except the weird quit game hang-up ever blue moon or so...no savegame corruptions, and no AI trading while I'm trading...

I've only dared step into Regent lately, because I like playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

I routinely email games to my Dad and brother, who also have the patch and experience no issues...

In regards to roads...I noticed that crossing a river halts your movement now, when it didn't before, but once you get Engineering this goes away, so I have no issue with roads.

On workers...I hardly ever automate them. No AI could ever do what I really wanted done anyway. I will say however, than I loved the Civ2 settler AI-very good!

On tech advantages never being significantly achieved...I had a game on Warlord, where I had all the tech in the Industrial age and had started the Modern era before any AI had reached the Industrial age. I had wiped out three of the 8 other AI's on my continent...but if the trade bug were really that bad, then I should never have had this much of an advantage. This, however, was pre-patch, but I still aquire significant tech advantages...Regent is a different story...

I can also still capture cities, except the new and size ones...

I can also force the AI to give me a couple cities and all their money and tech in exchange for peace...I also dominate the Ancient period of the game...

So, in short, I still love the game, and I don't know what is posessing your computers.

My hopes and prayers go out to each of you, so that these issues may somehow be resolved. As for me, I have no problems.

I will send save game files of the above-mentioned mega advantage if some of you disbelieve me...

Almost forgot!!! Corruption is not fixed in the patch in my games, maybe that's the only issue I have...

	13-12-2001 00:06									#122
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Crash on a large regent map, 1950 AD, 7 other civs, beginning of turn, loaded an auto save to last turn, clicked on a city and then the crash.
--
CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 0187:0048f883.
Registers:
EAX=00000001 CS=0187 EIP=0048f883 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=000000cf SS=018f ESP=00abf8dc EBP=00006b6c
ECX=0154a980 DS=018f ESI=00609970 FS=38b7
EDX=0b626930 ES=018f EDI=54494e55 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 0c a9 8b 79 48 8b 69 44 0b fd 8b 69 40 8b c8
Stack dump:
0000025f 00000000 00609970 00559112 000000cf 0000025f 0000025f 000000cf 00609970 0055b692 00000001 00000f7c 0055b7be 0055c252 000000cf 0000025f
--

Sysinfo: Amd 1ghz, 384mb sdram, 32mb geforce 2 mx (Drivers upto date), direct x 8a, SB live value.

HTH

--
Foxglove
--

	13-12-2001 00:06									#123
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

O/S win 98 se (For above post)

--
Foxglove
--

	13-12-2001 00:30									#124
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by WarKing In regards to roads...I noticed that crossing a river halts your movement now, when it didn't before, but once you get Engineering this goes away, so I have no issue with roads.

This only happens in the ancient (and maybe middle ages) period. They didn't really have bridge building capabilities in the ancient period. At least not for the size of rivers that are on these maps.

	13-12-2001 00:44									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Another note, I haven't witnessed the shadowed city sizes either. I'm wondering if DirectX 8.1 solves some issues.

	13-12-2001 00:54									#126
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Another one reporting in that the connecting lines have disappeared from the diplomacy screen: both trades and treaties. Running Windows 98 and blah blah blah.

	13-12-2001 01:11									#127
	Palace Pricing Inflate your Upload Space

About midway thru screen2 of this thread, I posted about the exorbanant shield values of Palace relocation. I recognize that this issue will naturally take a back seat to crashing systems etc but ...

I have since gathered some data about palace pricing by reviewing original v1.07 games with the v1.16 installation, and also by playing an all new v1.16 game. These fames were on several (but not all) map sizes, and difficulty levels.

Obserations:
The Palace Price appears dependant on city count, dependant on map size, and independant of difficulty level.

The Palace starts out at 1200 shields (3x original) and builds to 4000 shields (10x original). The 4000 shield level is attained at approximately the optimum city count for corruption purposes as defined in the editor.

Bug or feature?
Hopefully, this is a bug. Now I am not one to palace hop, however the extremely high corruption in the game has forced me to relocate my palace in about 80% of the games played so far. The most common starting position is close to the edge of a land mass so that only 1/2 of the potential low corruption real estate is available. Another frequent starting position is at or near the end of a narrow land spur. with even less low corruption real estate available.

There should be a reasonable palace pricing algorithm that allows for necessary relocations but effectively shuts down abusive palace hopping.

I propose the following:
The first relocation is relatively low cost. Each subsequent relocation is geometrically more expensive. something like 100, 1000, 10000....

Since the palace can only be rushed with a leader, the v1.16 approach of increasing cost for increasing city count is illogical.

The original v1.07 was not broken. Hence this change in v1.16 is contrary to the first law of patches. A patch should do no harm.

	13-12-2001 01:25									#128
	Suffering from ads?

I fully concur with a needed reduction in palace construction costs...I have a city now, only 8 squares from my capital, trying to build a new palace. It produces 9 production and after corruption takes its bite, that city can only effectively use 5 shields. It will take me another 150 turns to build this palace...I started about 20 turns ago...I think then it was going to take 199 turns...I was only producing about 2 usable shields then

So, he's right, 4000 shields to build a palace when I'm in the ancient era is insane! I've finished the Pyramids and the Great Library waiting for this damn thing!

	13-12-2001 03:44									#129
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just a quick note:

* When the AI captures your workers, they appear to be destroyed after the AI completes its turn. The captured workers don't show up in the military advisor screen as being captured by that AI.

	13-12-2001 03:49									#130
	Holy, Paratrooper Wars Get a bigger avatar today!

Every civs main offensive force is Paratroopers 100's of paratroopers, even though they could build the old tanks or at least use the mech infantry for offense. No one has modern armor so don't know if that would change things, the game ended so I couldn't find out.

I really like the way the civs play now though, they never used to declare war this much.

	13-12-2001 03:54									#131
	Suggestion: supreme court? Inflate your Upload Space

If I may repost a suggestion that people liked:

Include a new Small Wonder

Supreme Court

Doubles the effectiveness of all courthouses (so they reduce corruption by 50% like they used to)

Prerequisites

Corporation + number of courthouses >= optimal number of cities

An alternative would be to include the ability to double the effectiveness of various buildings to the editor (if it's not already there) so we can create new small wonders. I would love to have the ability to double the effectiveness of other buildings not currently doubled by wonders or techs.

	13-12-2001 04:03									#132
	Re: Solution for patch problems! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Desert Dog I solved the problem that the patch causes. I unistalled the... Desert Dog

Desert Dog,
Enough. Seriously. You're done. We get it. You are unhappy with the game. You don't need to post 5 TIMES A DAY to remind us.
Jack@$$
-Brian

	13-12-2001 04:06									#133
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Small suggestion with roads and rivers that will improve the appearance of the game:

Before engineering is discovered, crossing rivers is slow because troops stop there. After engineering is discovered, roads across rivers work. However, the rivers in the game cover the roads throughout.

An idea would be to render the screen like this:

Before Engineering:

Render roads
Render rivers

(Roads have a visible break at the rivers)

After Engineering:

Render rivers
Render roads

(Roads cross the rivers)

	13-12-2001 04:17									#134
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still the AI not understanding the 512 city limit is pissing me off. I can't play on 180x180 maps or higher with a large landmass

	13-12-2001 04:23									#135
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just now noticed that I haven't gotten a palace in my current game, though I should have. Has this happened to anyone else?

	13-12-2001 04:56									#136
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Im not sure if this is the copy protection thing or not. After installing the patch (and reinstalling both game and patch to try and fix it) I got to play the game a few times, then I wouldnt be able to start the game. No splash screen, no alert other than this page fault error.

So, umm, Lil help?



CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 018f:0088348c.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=018f EIP=0088348c EFLGS=00010246
EBX=00000108 SS=0197 ESP=00baf770 EBP=00baf9bc
ECX=817d7ee8 DS=0197 ESI=00baf9bc FS=2ac7
EDX=42280cf7 ES=0197 EDI=00baf8a8 GS=2ab6
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 42 0c 8b 8d d0 fe ff ff 03 41 10 8b 95 c4 fd
Stack dump:
00983ab4 00401000 00881056 00baf797 001cf000 00000000 775c3a63 6f646e69 545c7377 5c504d45 3966657e 5c393565 4b894c1f b40f3edd b16814ae 39a066ac

	13-12-2001 06:12									#137
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quote: Originally posted by star mouse Just a quick note: * When the AI captures your workers, they appear to be destroyed after the AI completes its turn. The captured workers don't show up in the military advisor screen as being captured by that AI.

I confirm this , but only since v 1.16f, when the AI captured one of my settlers: I never saw any of the two supposed workers thereafter on the map, in no adjacent square where I should have seen them since I had other units around. This is a bug.

	13-12-2001 06:43									#138
	Silent AI cheats Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The good news:

-- 1.16f patch renders the game harder ( at least at Monarch level ), so at first sight I should be pleased - I was thinking that patching Civ III will render it easier . I was wrong. But the way they did it is not elegant ( see bad news ).

--the patch works well if you install it and reboot your machine just before starting a fresh new game.

The bad news:

--I'm not a whiner, never been anyway, Civ III is still a great game, but NOW since 1.16f I begin to understand the whiners in a way..... the AI is overcheating at Monarch ( so imagine at Emperor+ ) MORE than before ( next to 1.07f ). It seems to me that the AI builds nearly.... twice the military units, is more aggressive, declares war more frequently and sooner even if I'm peaceful and honorable with them, even if I build the SAME amount of units than 1.07f games.....now I imagine I must build also twice the number of units ....this only concurs my thoughts about considering Civ III destined for aggressive warmongers at Monarch+, the peaceful builders must play at Regent- . This is unfair, and I concur that the points system is unfair also and must be fixed. I won my two last 1.07f Monarch games, normal+8 civs and huge+16 civs, NOW I have just lost my two 1.16f Monarch attempts... the AI captured culturally AND by force a couple of my good cities before 800 AD ( never happened before even in my first game ). Average map+8 civs.

If I want to keep this patch, I must switch back again to Regent until they fix the game further...and if it is not be fixed in a logical way, then I guess I'll make a more social living until MoO 3.....

They should have stated in the readme.txt: " it is slightly easier to culturally acquire cities...for the AI, and harder for the player because this is it...and the AI seems to build temples and libraries at the same pace than before, perhaps with a bonus cheat . Anyway the " cultural priority of AI is reduced" doesn't seem to work.... Any thoughts??

	13-12-2001 06:44									#139
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

ho i just got civ3.. one problem i've found is i try to move a unit and it won't move. click it on and it says already moved...usually the box on lower left says wait and keeps saying wait....i can scroll and workers are working but i can't skip to the next unit cause it keeps saying wait.

is this a bug?

tom

	13-12-2001 06:47									#140
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

sorry

correction.

the box on lower right

tom

	13-12-2001 07:06									#141
	Remove this text

1) im not sure if this is a result of my modding, but im pretty sure it isnt, the lines showing whos at war, peace, ect. keep on dissapearing in the middle of the game

2) large unchaded rectangles are showing up in the topcitys/demograthics screen

	13-12-2001 09:10									#142
	Re: Silent AI cheats Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus The good news: -- 1.16f patch renders the game harder ( at least at Monarch level ), so at first sight I should be pleased - I was thinking that patching Civ III will render it easier . I was wrong. But the way they did it is not elegant ( see bad news ). --the patch works well if you install it and reboot your machine just before starting a fresh new game. The bad news: --I'm not a whiner, never been anyway, Civ III is still a great game, but NOW since 1.16f I begin to understand the whiners in a way..... the AI is overcheating at Monarch ( so imagine at Emperor+ ) MORE than before ( next to 1.07f ). It seems to me that the AI builds nearly.... twice the military units, is more aggressive, declares war more frequently and sooner even if I'm peaceful and honorable with them, even if I build the SAME amount of units than 1.07f games.....now I imagine I must build also twice the number of units ....this only concurs my thoughts about considering Civ III destined for aggressive warmongers at Monarch+, the peaceful builders must play at Regent- . This is unfair, and I concur that the points system is unfair also and must be fixed. I won my two last 1.07f Monarch games, normal+8 civs and huge+16 civs, NOW I have just lost my two 1.16f Monarch attempts... the AI captured culturally AND by force a couple of my good cities before 800 AD ( never happened before even in my first game ). Average map+8 civs. If I want to keep this patch, I must switch back again to Regent until they fix the game further...and if it is not be fixed in a logical way, then I guess I'll make a more social living until MoO 3..... They should have stated in the readme.txt: " it is slightly easier to culturally acquire cities...for the AI, and harder for the player because this is it...and the AI seems to build temples and libraries at the same pace than before, perhaps with a bonus cheat . Anyway the " cultural priority of AI is reduced" doesn't seem to work.... Any thoughts??

My solution is to remove the patch and hope they see they made a MAJOR screw up and fix it. This game could be cool, but it needs tons of work. Large maps will crash more than small ones will. Some of the mods will not work right with the patch for some reason either. We need some good programming and testing! You will experience more things later trust me. I have a list about 50 things wrong with patch and unaddressed issues. Many of these no one else seems to be mentioning. That tells me that a good programmer is not involved or these type of issues would not crop up. Peace and good luck!

Desert Dog

	13-12-2001 09:32									#143
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What are the black boxes doing there? They appear after diplomatic negotiations. You can hear a *ba-bomp* sound (sort of like the 'new city'-sound) and then they appear in the background.

-Alech

Attachment: bugsmall.jpg
This has been downloaded 1167 time(s).

	13-12-2001 09:47									#144
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by tomdy2k ho i just got civ3.. one problem i've found is i try to move a unit and it won't move. click it on and it says already moved...usually the box on lower left says wait and keeps saying wait....i can scroll and workers are working but i can't skip to the next unit cause it keeps saying wait. is this a bug? tom

I had the something simular happen to me. But it was with the air units. After bombarding with a unit, it would go back to that unit and still be *flashing* as if I hadnt used it. The buttons on the bottem screen were gone and the shortcut keys didnt work. So I manually had to choose a new unit, once I tried to bombard with it the game would imediatly jump back to the one I had had problems with before....

	13-12-2001 10:46									#145
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Like many others, I've just reinstalled the game. Retired from another Monarch game because the Babs culturally assimilated one of my strong cities ( 7 pop, 3 spearman, temple+library+university! for hundreds of cult points ) by one of his lame 3-pop city where he obviously hadn't more culture facilities than me: face it, FIRAXIS, the 1.16 patch is REVERTING the logical culture engine . Now I'm back to good old 1.07f . Perhaps yin is right for one thing: you shouldn't patch Civ III.

	13-12-2001 13:29									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Akaoz What are the black boxes doing there? They appear after diplomatic negotiations. You can hear a *ba-bomp* sound (sort of like the 'new city'-sound) and then they appear in the background. -Alech

I read somewhere a Firaxian noted that if you run the game at greater than 1024x768, you'll eventually get those boxes on the screen, usually after diplomacy or checking your foreign advisor. Same with the settler city-layout box. The black boxes are supposed to frame the city names several lines above them, but are for some reason shifted down the screen.

	13-12-2001 14:48									#147
	Re: Silent AI cheats Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus -- 1.16f patch renders the game harder ( at least at Monarch level ) the AI is overcheating at Monarch ( so imagine at Emperor+ ) MORE than before ( next to 1.07f ).

Strangely i find the game easier with the new patch and AI being more logical and civs acting more to their role. I also play with Monarch.

You must have accidentally chosen Deity level ?

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus They should have stated in the readme.txt: " it is slightly easier to culturally acquire cities...for the AI, and harder for the player

Again, i have totally different experiences about the matter, i think its fairly easy to assimilate rival border cities. But, ofcourse it depends alot on play style and civs that are involved.

	13-12-2001 15:05									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Foxglove Crash on a large regent map, 1950 AD, 7 other civs, beginning of turn, loaded an auto save to last turn, clicked on a city and then the crash. -- CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 0187:0048f883. Registers: EAX=00000001 CS=0187 EIP=0048f883 EFLGS=00010206 EBX=000000cf SS=018f ESP=00abf8dc EBP=00006b6c ECX=0154a980 DS=018f ESI=00609970 FS=38b7 EDX=0b626930 ES=018f EDI=54494e55 GS=0000 Bytes at CS:EIP: 8b 0c a9 8b 79 48 8b 69 44 0b fd 8b 69 40 8b c8 Stack dump: 0000025f 00000000 00609970 00559112 000000cf 0000025f 0000025f 000000cf 00609970 0055b692 00000001 00000f7c 0055b7be 0055c252 000000cf 0000025f -- Sysinfo: Amd 1ghz, 384mb sdram, 32mb geforce 2 mx (Drivers upto date), direct x 8a, SB live value.

Again similar crash report to mine and few others i have seen here, and only thing common is SB live card, i really hope Firaxis will address this issue with SB live in the next patch.

(altough SB live seems to generally suck, it has issues with many games, it may be because guys at Creative havent bothered to update the drivers or liveware to it in very long time)

	13-12-2001 16:12									#149
	Put an end to popups!

This is the thread, eh? For issues and bugs?

Okay, issue:

Group movement.

bug

Lines disappearing on diplomacy screen.

Is this the thread for answers?

	13-12-2001 17:13									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan I read somewhere a Firaxian noted that if you run the game at greater than 1024x768, you'll eventually get those boxes on the screen, usually after diplomacy or checking your foreign advisor. Same with the settler city-layout box. The black boxes are supposed to frame the city names several lines above them, but are for some reason shifted down the screen.

Heh, the wierd thing is, this happened after I patched the game...

-Alech