11-12-2001 06:51									#1
	Missles and Monitors Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Artilliary and bombing should sink ships. While it is reasonable that ground units can survive artilary (this is borne out in fact), there are no foxholes to dig in the ocean.

Having said this, no catapult or black powder cannon should affect anything beyond a wooden ship.

No wooden ship with black powder muzzle loading cannon or balista can affect a monitor class ship at all ever, execpt maby by fouling its prop with the debri of its hull and sail. A monitor vs a wooden ship is an instant kill unless the wooden ship is faster and can sail away.

The monitor is the first modern battle ship and its basic design is still in use today. Notably, a Monitor is a coastal ship only (it sinks in ocean water) and does not have sufficient fire power to affect another monitor class (or more modern) vessle because it is still using black power round ball munitions.

For that matter, no arrow tosser, sword welder or musket ball packer can affect an armored unit. Only modern infantry or better has the tactics and firepower to successfully engage an armored unit. Simply, an archer or knight that attacks armor is dead, instanty, consistantly, always.

It would be nice to have a missle base that replaces the sea fortress and SAM battery. Missles can engage both ships and aircraft.

	11-12-2001 07:02									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You make a great point about the early ironclads being coastal vessels. One great thing would be to limit their offensive firepower, movement and restrict them to coastal waters until later in the tech tree.

I am so very sad not to see frigates and other sailing ships play a greater role in the game.

	11-12-2001 07:26									#3
	Subs & pirates Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Submarines as currently implemented in CIVIII are almost uselss. they have no standoff capability (most subs I know about have things called torpedos) and can attack only by bumping into their target.

Submarines must have a ranged attack of at least one square and with smart weapons the should increase to 2 or three.

I was considerably aghast when a wooden frigate sank my 688. How could that occur? Even a WWI sub having to engage with its deck cannon against any wooden ship or even a monitor should win with ease. It blows the other ship out of the water before that ship even knows it is there.

The sub is a true stealth weapon and should be able to attack without indicating who did it unless the victom has radio or asw capability to detect who it was. The target ship simpy disappears. ie, know war status should be triggered unless there is a chance of detection.

Nuclear ships and subs should have a movement of at least six as not only are they faster but they do not have to resupply anything but food.

The pirate ship is (as currenly configured) is useless. It is underpowered and late in the tech tree. Actually, a unique unit is not needed, there should be a pirate option for the normal units that allow them to attack and collect booty under a gray flag. This is the better way to do this and the option could be obsoleated in later earas.

A chance for survivors and/or captured pirates to rat out the real owner could engage a diplomatic dialoge or war.

If you have oil or coal powered ships and your supply of oil or coal is cut, those ships should immediatly redirect to the nearest port or shore square and be unmovable until the resourse is available again. Becase a nuclear vessle does not have to be refuled for years, this may not apply.

Some of the orphan technologes could give units and cities additional abilites, like asw or increased range, vision. That way things like radio are not just 'speed bumps' on the way to someting useful.

I would add a special forces unit or option that allows a unit to act stealthfully and annonomously. In fact it might be fun to allow acting under another faction's colors.

	11-12-2001 07:41									#4
	Bradlys & Bayonets Tired of ads?

Mech infantry should require oil, aluminum and rubber to construct.

Infantry shouold require rubber and steel.

Battleships and destroyers should require oil and steel. Actually, early ships used coal fired steam.

The orphan technology 'STEEL' should allow for the building of steel mills which fuction only as long as coal and iron are available.

This raises the issue of having manufactured resources available allong with the existing raw materials. (which i compliment firaxis on its implementation, pity they didn't do more).

	11-12-2001 07:48									#5
	Wooden ships & Iron men Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wooden ships require wood. Lots and Lots of it. England deforested itself to create those vast fleets. (primarily why sherwood forest is now sherwood garden).

Unless you do sustainable forestry, those forest squares should suffer.

This explains why desert and jungle dwellers didn't do lots of ocean exploring.

Unless you connect to a forest square, you should not be able to build naval ships.