12-12-2001 18:37									#1
	A way to fix combat! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have seen alot of complaints about inferior units defeating superior units on a fairly regular basis (I, myslef, have seen this in some of my games).

I propose the following solution:

Give the unit a bonus against units from a previous era.

Say a Modern Armor unit is fighting a Phalanx. The Phalanx is a ancient era unit and the Modern Armor is Modern unit. So, say you give the superior unit a +15% bonus per era difference. The Modern Armor would have a +45% bonus for the combat. This would still give the Phalanx a rare chance to win, while giving the more technologically advanced Armor a big advantage like it should have.

Thoughts? Can this be done in the editor? If so how? I would be interested in testing this.

[END OF LINE...]

	12-12-2001 18:52									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Surely it would be simpler to just increase the ADM ratings of units in their various eras accordingly?

Take a Rifleman, for example, an industrial age unit. Just change its stats from 4/6/1 to 5/8/1 (this is a 30% increase in stats, rounded off to the nearest whole number, in accordance with your 15% per era boost).

Although, based on experiments I've already made along these lines, I'd make the increments far greater. I am having a difficult time having Battleships (A=24 D=20) reliably defeat Ironclads (A=6 D=6); they still get badly damaged when attacking and occasionall killed when defending. I really don't like the new "random" number generators. Maybe I'm romanticisng the past, but I think I prefer the Civ2 combat system when all is said and done. Bombardment, though, is a blessing.

	12-12-2001 20:03									#3
	Re: A way to fix combat! Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by M Bison I have seen alot of complaints about inferior units defeating superior units on a fairly regular basis (I, myslef, have seen this in some of my games).

This happens on occasion for me, but very rarely. People complaining about this are complaining because they are trying to apply civ 2 combat tactics in this game.

A/D/M values are easily changed in the editor, however, which would roughly accomplish a greater spread between units of different eras. Also, you could increase default hitpoints for units(say 4,6,8,10 instead of 2,3,4,5).

	12-12-2001 20:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

In my homegrown mod, I've defined the combat eras as follows:

1) Pre-gunpowder (guys with sharp objects, galleys, catapults)
2) Early Gunpowder (musketmen/musketeers, cavalry, cannon, all sailing ships)
3) Steam Age (riflemen, ironclads)
4) Modern (everything after riflemen & ironclads including all air units).

I then multiplied the attack, defense & bombardment factors of all units by their era number (you can use factors up to 1000).

I would have made combat era 4 "World Wars" and created an era 5 "Modern" except I wanted paratroopers & marines available in the world wars but not obsolete.

Once the editor can add units and suitable graphics are available, the combat era list will expand to produce finer gradations of military technology.

	12-12-2001 20:22									#5
	Re: Re: A way to fix combat! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by barefootbadass Also, you could increase default hitpoints for units(say 4,6,8,10 instead of 2,3,4,5).

There are 2 problems with raising the hit points for units:

1: Battles will take much longer due to it taking more time to knock down all those hitpoints.

2: Units will take longer to heal back to full strength after a long campiagn.

Good idea though.

	12-12-2001 21:21									#6
	Hit points Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'll mention this one last time, in case people are getting bored with it...

I have HP set at 3/4/5/7 and it seems to help. Sure, it means that units sometimes take 2 turns to heal instead of one, but I dont really see that as all bad.

	12-12-2001 21:43									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I changed the HP's to 3/4/5/7 for my last game after reading your post somewhere else, and it has improved the game a lot IMO. I would suggest if you follow this method then you should increase the Bombard firepower for ALL capable units by 1.

	12-12-2001 23:51									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm.. just one question.

Are you M. Bison:



Or the renamed from Vega to M. Bison M. Bison:



?

	13-12-2001 00:31									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

That would be the bottom one.

Here is a bit of trivia for you though:

Do you know why the names were changed for the American version?






And by the way, where did you get those animated gifs?

	13-12-2001 01:25									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Personally I just made everything exponential. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64.

Which means that there still is a chance that a unit from the immediately previous era wins. E.g., knights attacking Riflemen still do have a 33% chance of winning each round. At two eras difference, e.g., Horsemen vs Riflemen, now there's only 20% chance to win each round. However, on the whole battle, modern units tend to win more often.

But again, they will take some damage in some rounds. So enough hordes of archers still can and do defeat a rifleman. Even though the rifleman wins a lot of battles, he WILL slowly lose health and eventually die. It just takes more hordes than before.

Shameless self-promotion: you can look for the "exponential" mod in the Creation forum. It does that and a few other things.

	13-12-2001 01:49									#11
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Mikel I changed the HP's to 3/4/5/7 for my last game after reading your post somewhere else, and it has improved the game a lot IMO. I would suggest if you follow this method then you should increase the Bombard firepower for ALL capable units by 1.

Yeah. Some smart person pointed that out. I didn't change them all, since you can now use 1-4 for "attacks" instead of 1-3. Higher resolution means I make some units "fit" in a bit easier: Subs = 2, Destroyers = 3, Battleships = 4.

	13-12-2001 03:35									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by M Bison That would be the bottom one. Here is a bit of trivia for you though: Do you know why the names were changed for the American version? And by the way, where did you get those animated gifs?

Because Japan is backwards and they reversed it to make it forwards for the yanks?

I really want to know now.

	13-12-2001 03:55									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The Reason they change the names of characters in Street Fighter 2:

M. Bison was a bit too close to Mike Tyson for Capcom of America to handle. They swapped the names around to avoid any possible legal action.

Look at Baalrog (US) and it is obvious he was modeled after Mike Tyson. He was known as M. Bison (rhymes with M. Tyson) in Japan.

	13-12-2001 04:56									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yep, I knew. If I had posted in time I would have revealed the same, honest!

Well, here's more super happy fun Capcom history facts instead:

-Capcom decided Americans would be offended by the idea of killing Nazis and Hitler, and changed their names in the U.S. version of Bionic Commando to "Badds" and "Master D" respectively.
-Despite causing problems in the Dash series, Capcom decides to change the name of Rockman in the U.S. to the better known "Mega Man."
-Rockman Dash was also changed (Mega Man Legends in U.S.)
-Sodom, the crimelord who emulates Japanese culture was renamed "Katana" for Final Fight and his subsequent appearences in Street Fighter Zero.
-Street Fighter Zero was also changed (Street Fighter Alpha in U.S.)
-Gouki, the evil demon fighter was renamed "Akuma" in the U.S.

There's way more, but you get the picture. Capcom loves to change things for the American releases!

By the way, it's no longer "America." It's now "Bonerland."