12-12-2001 22:04									#1
	If you want Firaxis to listen..... Suffering from ads?

then contact Firaxis. Ranting over and over here and flaming everyone who disagrees with you is not talking to Firaxis. At best it's preaching to the choir and that never really gets anything done.

Many people have good ideas that never reach the right people because they don't try to comunicate with the right people directly. The people at Firaxis are people with a job. They cannot sit all day at their computer and respond to posts (many of wich are abusive) in this forum. In fact I would think that very soon they will start to ignore the abusive rants regardless of their content. (I have work in a customer relations department and trust me you will not get better service the louder you are)

If you have a problem with running the game then contact their technical support. Their support infomation can be found at http://www.civ3.com/support.cfm or in the manual. Many of the "problems" reported are addressed in the manual. Some of the problems are also addressed at http://www.ina-support.com/faq/civ3_pc.asp#standard many have also been addressed on this forum.

I think that if you have a suggestion and want to see what others think then by all means bring it up here and then present it to Firaxis.

This forum should be for the majority of us that realize the game has flaws but enjoy it and hope to make our little escape in the the fantasy world of gameplaying a little more fun.


"For those about to rock, we salute you..." - AC/DC

	12-12-2001 22:18									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I was once like you, Grasshopper. I defended Firaxis from the abusers until I found out first hand why they've let their emotions get the best of them. You will, too.

Oh, Great Void! May we have stack movement, please?

	12-12-2001 22:21									#3
	Put an end to popups!

What happened to make "their emotions get the best of them"? What have they done or not done?

	12-12-2001 22:39									#4
	Support Apolyton

Libertarian, does this mean you have, for lack of a better way to say it, switched sides?

	12-12-2001 22:47									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have attempted to contact Firaxis directly. I have yet to receive a reply. I have started posting here to get responses from my fellow gamers. I have even gotten solutions to technical problems from other non-Firaxisian posters.

Besides, it's fun to rant and rave about things in public where everyone can hear it.

Deornwulf - The English Teacher

	12-12-2001 23:10									#6
	Put an end to popups!

My point is this when all these are busy ranting and raving to satisfy their own selfish selfworth problem then those of us who are looking for useful information cannot find it though all the junk.

Deornwulf - if you really are a teacher then you know how difficult it can be when some people get out of hand and take over.



As for being a "grasshopper" I have been a registered user of this board since 1999 with this alias (and others). This is much longer than the majority of posters that have taken over this board. But that means nothing, when it comes down to it we are all on equal ground. I am no better than you, please remember that you are no better than me. Enough said. End of discussing insects.



Still have yet to see what the guys at Firaxis failed so badly on that we all deserve to put up with this mess.

	12-12-2001 23:24									#7
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by nato Libertarian, does this mean you have, for lack of a better way to say it, switched sides?

Well, I don't rant. I don't act like I'm on a crusade or anything, but yeah.

I staunchly defended Firaxis only to find my own questions summarily ignored. You might recall my recent thread about stack movement. I must say that, as their champion defender, I was... well... frankly embarrassed that my theretofore unwavering support didn't even merit the civility of a response.

How can my defense of them possibly hold? An even half-savvy debator can now always rebut anything I offer with, "They don't even listen to their supporters; how are we to believe they will listen to their critics?"

Thus, I haven't really "switched sides" so much as I've been abandoned. I certainly did my part. Naively, I suppose, now in retrospect.

	12-12-2001 23:45									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

My simple question would be this: Have you contacted Firaxis directly or do you just post here?

	13-12-2001 00:00									#9
	Tired of ads?

My simple answer would be this: yes.

	13-12-2001 00:04									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: My simple answer would be this: yes.

Good answer to an either/or question. Are you in politics as your name suggests?

	13-12-2001 00:09									#11
	Put an end to popups!

I had a problem that prevented me from playing the game (The safedisc problem)

I tried sending a mail to Infogrames (as directed from the Civ3 support page), but after waiting 4 days I get the answer that they only help North Americans (I live in Denmark) - despite the fact that their support page had options for European countries as well. They refer me to the Infogrames UK site, which unfortunately doesn't have an email/support form, but only a phone number, so I'm supposed to call them at expensive overseas prices and hang on hold to tell them about their bugs? Forget it.

So I go to the Firaxis site and use the form there to submit my problem about a week ago and I never heard from them since. I've since solved my problem myself - yes I've cracked my original Civilization in order to play it... A joke.

So I go here again and see that it has been posted that I/we should contact Infogrames about getting an unsecured .exe file... Funny I wasn't told that, but has to read it here. Besides which I don't have any confidence that I'll get any useful reply from Infogrames after my last contact. So I rant and rave. I try to control it, but it's so very hard........

	13-12-2001 00:30									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

kazper

Thank you for answering my question. I know it sometimes takes time to get an answer via E-mail or snail mail from any company, but it is quite apparent that Firaxis/Infogames does not offer the same support to our friends outside the U.S.

	13-12-2001 00:36									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ****gyRA Good answer to an either/or question. Are you in politics as your name suggests?

Lordy, no. Just a freelance philosopher whose worldview is a blend of Christianity, Libertarianism, and Objectivism.

Note how my worldview makes for a nice haiku.

	13-12-2001 04:02									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Deornwulf Deornwulf - The English Teacher

Um... isnt that supposed to be:

Deornwulf - The Deer Hunter ?

	13-12-2001 05:29									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian I staunchly defended Firaxis only to find my own questions summarily ignored.

In this case it's because you're setup to get neither email or private messages. I don't have the time to stay current every day on every thread, so if you have a question, forget support@firaxis.com and send it to jmorris@firaxis.com. By the same time token I won't often respond to emails concerning:

a) feature requests we're well aware of or are impossible.
b) rants (if I can't find the legitimate question in 5 paragraphs of froth...)
c) technical issues documented on the infogrames tech support site
d) misc. since I miss emails from all sources every now and then.

Let me repeat it: jmorris@firaxis.com.

Jeff

	13-12-2001 05:38									#16
	there ya go Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"In this case it's because you're setup to get neither email or private messages. I don't have the time to stay current every day on every thread...."

Well said . I would say this proves Firaxis is paying attention and addressing those issues within its mandate.


We just have to be patient and practise more zen.

	13-12-2001 06:05									#17
	Suffering from ads?

Thank you for answering Jeff. It's what I was trying to explain.

	13-12-2001 06:06									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let's remember folks...

IT IS SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE TO READ EVERY THREAD AND WORD PRINTED HERE. (I'm a mod, and I don't even claim I can do that )

I've read so many rants that Firaxis isn't responding to their questions. As pointed out above by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS, they may not have seen it.

But my favorite line from Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS is OH SO TRUE!

quote: I won't often respond to emails concerning:... b) rants (if I can't find the legitimate question in 5 paragraphs of froth...)

It's simple human nature to ignore questions that are impossible to understand because they are buried under tons of rants and raves.

Maybe people should keep that in mind when they post their questions here.

	13-12-2001 06:16									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yeah it is only polite to keep it short and to the point. Besides it increases your chances of being listened to.

I sent in my idea because I think it is a reasonable and good one. It was 4 lines of type total and a "Thanks for reading!" at the end. Go for something like that instead of a rant.

	13-12-2001 07:09									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The forum should be for everyone, not only people that think Firaxis made a very good game. Of course, it is a good thing to limit those who are posting the same stuff over and over, with no positive advance, which is useless and a waste of my time.

But i have to say that Firaxis made some things I'm woundering what's the big deal about it. They concepts behind Civ III are so much more promising than what they delivered. I mean that some simple things (stacking, etc.) were evdent and not done. Combat never have been as weird as it is now, balance is as a beta, etc. Can't say it's perfect, so I'm asking myself why. And this is what I reflect on the forums, which are our gaming community mirror.

	13-12-2001 15:11									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have not ever ranted against Firaxis. Not thrice. Not twice. Not even once.

Moreover, it seemed to me that this (and CivFanatics) is where they are answering questions. Cherry-picking, to be sure, but answering. It makes no sense to correspond by private message on such matters as stack movement, a concern of the whole community.

Do you mean to say that if I'd had PM turned on, you would have answered me privately, but would not have answered for the whole community to see? What would that mean to me, then? That I would have been held to secrecy? Or would have been expected to copy/paste your response here?

Why not just post a teensy line or two here? Why the tedious run-around?

• We're implementing a form of stack movement, and will advise everyone soon.
  
• We think late game tedium adds to the experience.
  
• Leave us alone.
  

	13-12-2001 15:14									#22
	Put an end to popups!

Gah. The more I think about it, the more bizarre your post was, Jeff.

If you had the time to chastise me here, why didn't you just answer the question?

	13-12-2001 15:28									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You get one guess.....

In other related news my mouse informs me that it has abandoned the click abusing Civ3 game for the greener pastures of EU2.


/dev

	13-12-2001 18:49									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Gah. The more I think about it, the more bizarre your post was, Jeff. If you had the time to chastise me here, why didn't you just answer the question?

No offense, but it seems to me he did:

quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS a) feature requests we're well aware of or are impossible.

You may recall a small controversy about editors and multiplayer capabilities after Firaxians posted something like "We're implementing a form of xxx, and will advise everyone soon". People start piling on with questions like: "what are you doing with xxx?" "Why isn't xxx done yet?" "Your game sux, here's how to fix it!" I am astounded at the patience of the Firaxians in dealing with the outright abuse they've endured, particularly in this forum.

Again, I'm not trying to offend you here, but does defending Firaxis in some of the threads entitle you to special treatment by them? These boards consist of people expressing their opinions. Either they think the game is great, terrible, or somewhere in the middle. Although most people fall into the third category, the first two categories are the ones who are motivated to keep posting here. You don't automatically become the buddy of everyone at Firaxis by joining the first group.

Firaxis is trying to run a business, and must allocate scarce resources in such a way as to maximize their profits. Once they've saturated the market, any additional investment into the game has pretty sketchy returns (like the nebulous concept of "goodwill"). They have shown a lot of enthusiasm and support for this game so far, and I'm optimistic that they'll add in the features they've said they will.

Sorry again for the diatribe. It bothers me when people here think that Firaxis owes them an answer to a question. Firaxis is, in my opinion, showing a commendable level of support and an amazing forbearance.

	13-12-2001 18:55									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't know DaveV. That argument would make much more sense if they actually responded more often and gave out more info.

I am not bashing. I just do not think Firaxis is really worthy of either bashing or your high level of praise.

After all it really does not take much to simply ignore almost everything others say, which is what Firaxis usually does.

	13-12-2001 19:27									#26
	Put an end to popups!

No problem, Dave. All I wanted was an answer to the question.

Mind you, it wasn't a question that only I had. So far, three threads have been opened on the topic of group movement. Each one, including the current one, has been deluged with practically unanimous support from the players, stating their desire for the feature. They've stated unequivocally that lack of it seriously impedes their enjoyment of the game — the game that Firaxis is developing.

Now, you say that Jeff has answered this question. I see not one penumbra — yea, nary an interstice! — in Jeff's post that even remotely addresses group movement. I acquiesce to your superior reading comprehension. I will ask you simply because inquiring minds want to know: what was his answer to the question?

	13-12-2001 19:45									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS I don't have the time to stay current every day on every thread, so if you have a question, forget support@firaxis.com and send it to jmorris@firaxis.com.

So youre saying that the email adress thats supposed to be used for support issues is basically useless because noone bothers to check it once in a while? Why not remove it completly?

	13-12-2001 20:34									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you are following the proper and established channels, you are not emailing Firaxis for support, you're emailing Infogrames. I posted a rather lengthy thread on CivFanatics about this last night. I won't rehash it all here, but the general point was that Infogrames is your support contact for Civ III. They're set up to handle the thousands and thousands of support inquiries and questions, we, as a small company of about 30 people, are not.

And no, this doesn't mean we don't care or that we're somehow trying to pass something off on Infogrames that we should be dealing with ourselves: it's part of the contract, it's their responsibility to handle support.

We do the best we can to answer all the emails that come in to us, some of which are general questions, and some of which are real support issues, but Infogrames are the organization you should be contacting for support.

And FYI, I check the various email boxes every day; frequently there are more than 400 messages in them. I respond to as many as I can on a daily basis but there is no way I can get to them all (though not for lack of trying).

Dan

	13-12-2001 20:38									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian I will ask you simply because inquiring minds want to know: what was his answer to the question?

That he's not going to answer. If he says "we're looking into that", it opens a huge can of worms. He said he won't respond to questions about "feature requests we're well aware of or are impossible". Whether stack movement is the former or the latter is left to our imagination, I guess.

	13-12-2001 20:42									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Dan,

With respect to the issue of group movement, no one is asking for support. What we are asking for is an answer. Clearly, you do not intend to offer the courtesy of a reply.

I'm afraid that if we ask Infogrames this question, they might tell us to build a port.

Dave,

Thanks. I think I get it now.