13-12-2001 01:49									#1
	Every civ game ever sucks! Increase the size of your Attachments

That right, according to usenet and thanks to Google's new back to 1981 archives, every civ game ever sucks.

Civnet:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g...%40cdc2.cdc.net

quote: The problem here, as always, is the shoddiness of the code that MicroProse releases in all their games. They should fire all their beta-testers, or get some, because I don't think they have ever released a game in their history that wasn't full of bugs.

Civ1:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g...%40kielo.uta.fi

quote: -A chariot got killed by a barbarian diplomat

Also, reference my previous "Civ2 sucks" post.

For that are literal minded, this post is not really implying that all civ games suck. This post is to beat those the rose colored sunglasses off of those who think that previous Civ games were perfect from Day 1.

	13-12-2001 03:17									#2
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What?! Unrealistic combat results in Civ2?! Unheard of! Never happened! That is a problem that is ENTIRELY in the domain of Civ3, and you blaspheme to say otherwise!



-=Vel=-
(who really enjoyed those blasts from the past....thank you)

	13-12-2001 03:28									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Nobody ever said it anything was perfect.The final verison of Civ2(MGE) was left with a very hostile AI.

The combat system was redone from 1>2 just for the reasons we are seeing.Strange results were very rare,even on highest difficulty levels in civ2.Civ3 returns things to the state of civ1.It was unpopular then..its unpopular now.

	13-12-2001 05:15									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Smash Nobody ever said it anything was perfect.The final verison of Civ2(MGE) was left with a very hostile AI. The combat system was redone from 1>2 just for the reasons we are seeing.Strange results were very rare,even on highest difficulty levels in civ2.Civ3 returns things to the state of civ1.It was unpopular then..its unpopular now.

Amen.
(though I won't say that the combat system in Civ3 is as bad as in Civ1, but it's definitely worse than Civ2's).

	13-12-2001 07:41									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil Amen. (though I won't say that the combat system in Civ3 is as bad as in Civ1, but it's definitely worse than Civ2's).

AHem,
Overall, the PLAY (which includes the combat system) is much better than Civ2's.

Ya gotta remember, it's still made up of people. It's not the technology, it's the people using the technology and training. When you lose an advanced unit to a small unit of somewhat less advancement (e.g, tank vs. militia aka spearman), you are actually weeding out the deadwood in your army -- those commanders that had turds for brains!
(Or commanders that just read the situation totally wrong due to lack of battlefield intelligence, and very wrong intuition.)

JB

	13-12-2001 10:26									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

When I play a game,I don't want to have to think about some obscure scenario involving human nature.I want to build stuff and have it perform like it should.
When my modern armor gets smoked by a pikeman I don't think "oh that was Crazy Joe.He is a terrible tank commander and that pikeman was William Wallace fighting for his murdered lover"

	13-12-2001 10:53									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

of course there are a few crackpots living in caves somewhere that don't like civ2, probably in Afghanistan, but to find the nearest civ3 hater, you only need take a walk outside your dorm room

	13-12-2001 11:31									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Are there really people who believe that a tank in-game represents a single tank, or a pikeman a single guy with a long spear?

	13-12-2001 11:33									#9
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deja vu

	13-12-2001 11:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Badtz Maru Are there really people who believe that a tank in-game represents a single tank, or a pikeman a single guy with a long spear?

Yes, these are the same people who think that combat outcomes that have a 3.67% probability should naturally occur 3 out of every 5 combat rounds.

	13-12-2001 14:14									#11
	Suffering from ads?

When my modern armor gets smoked by a pikeman I don't think "oh that was Crazy Joe.He is a terrible tank division commander and that pikeman unit led by William Wallace was fighting for his murdered lover"

happy?

	13-12-2001 15:19									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I usually see my modern armor as a nine year old girl dressed in a pink tutu, and the pikemen as an ivory croquet mallet. Perhaps I need to adjust my resolution...but as is, I think it works out.


Look for my Pink Tutu Mod available at a fansite nearest you. Check local listings for details. All rights reserved.

	13-12-2001 16:50									#13
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Smash When my modern armor gets smoked by a pikeman I don't think "oh that was Crazy Joe.He is a terrible tank division commander and that pikeman unit led by William Wallace was fighting for his murdered lover" happy?

LOL.

Though seriously, a little unpredicatability of combat outcomes is ok. I do agree that Civ3 takes it quite far though. [remembers single HP infantry beating Elite Tank army...]

	13-12-2001 23:50									#14
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In the previous "Civ2 Sucks" thread, I believe it was yin who pointed out the tedious nature of having to move so many units each turn, especially in the endgame. That got me to thinking...isn't that the very nature of Civ? I'm curious to hear what people think, since it seems to me that this is something you must either accept or reject about Civ, isn't it? I haven't used the stacking function yet, so I may be missing something here, but the tedium of moving too many units was something that struck me while playing Civ2.

I ask this because I've seen some people mention it as ding against Civ3. I think it's been an issue all along. What am I missing?

	15-12-2001 03:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by rwprice In the previous "Civ2 Sucks" thread, I believe it was yin who pointed out the tedious nature of having to move so many units each turn, especially in the endgame. That got me to thinking...isn't that the very nature of Civ? I'm curious to hear what people think, since it seems to me that this is something you must either accept or reject about Civ, isn't it? I haven't used the stacking function yet, so I may be missing something here, but the tedium of moving too many units was something that struck me while playing Civ2. I ask this because I've seen some people mention it as ding against Civ3. I think it's been an issue all along. What am I missing?

This time around you need more units to actually win. In civ2 you could just save and load with a handful and lay waste to anyone. Not that anyone save/loaded of course! Naaah!

	17-12-2001 01:13									#16
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Good research, now we know that Civ I and II got criticism when they were released- people HAD BEEN complaining that the compalints here were uncalled for