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LostLamb
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God's Country
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
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There isn't enough real differentiation between the civs, so we're making a few changes and modifications:
Zulu (Representing all of the Dark Continent)
-Will now have the ability to sell their workers to other civs for gold; however, said workers will only be 50% productive and will be more likely to riot in any city in which they are settled - increased likelihood of burning down buildings.
-Suffer increased economic corruption regardless of government type
-Will only be able to select despotism as a govt type.
French
-Have reintroduced something similar to the old CivI&CivII senate, but called 'national will.' National Will will often force the French player to surrender. During ensuing peace negotiations, the French player or AI will be forced to accept any and all terms, to which the French player must reply "thank you, kind sir, thank you for sparing us!"
-French AI is also now programmed with 'ungracious forgetfulness.' This will force it to quickly snub allies and forget all kind actions toward it. If you save the French from ruin, expect them to act toward you as though you just ran over their dog.
Germans
-Are now 'Militaristic, Scientific, AND Industrious.' I mean, c'mon, the krauts are known for their efficiency and engineering acumen.
-Have new ability to remove all foreign population points from their captured cities. This increases empire wide happiness, and results in shield bonus. Upsets relations with other civs.
-Two Front War. Any time the Germans declare war, or have war declared on them, all other bordering nations have a significant chance of also declaring war on Germany - regardless of any pacts or treaties.
Americans
-Borders are porous. Foreign civs can send their workers into America. These 'workers' will appear to the American AI or player like regular American worker units, but they will not actually get any work done. Additionally, they will occasionally send state secrets (technology) back to their home civ.
-Give Us Your Weak... Any time a foreign civ which has a city suffer civil disorder, there is a chance the unhappy populations points will migrate to the nearest American city.
-American players and AI will also experience a diplomatic penalty, which will cause all other civs to beg for money every turn. If they are given money, they will promptly accuse America of not giving enough and their attitude toward America will drop a little. If they are not given money, their attitude toward America will drop to as much as possible.
More to come, and suggestions are welcome....
--
Life is Short, Enjoy It.
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Aeris
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Ok, especially the Zulu and American changes there are pretty offensive. You're overgeneralizing in terms of the Zulu...the "dark continent" is just a very bad and very tasteless term to use. Also, how would you feel if the whole "white continent" was represted by, say, Poland?
In terms of America....yeesh, I'm not touching that with a 50-foot pole.
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satyajedi
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THis thread is stupid and horribly offensive.
By the way, America gives less foreign humanitarian aid than any industrialized nation in Europe (as a percentage of GDP). And as an Italian-American, let me add that the industrial capacity of this country was built on immigrant and "foreign" labor, and that the accusation of selling secrets to home countries was a lie used to perpetuate the oppression of Italians, Jews, and most of all the Japanese for centuries.
Furthermore, France saw a foreign power invade and conquor most of France for a hundred years -- about 25 times longer than the Americans were involved in World War II -- but never gave up, and suffered massive casualties before expelling the British.
The Zulu had nothing to do with the slave trade; they were not near it, they did not exist at the same time as it, it was totally irrelevant to the Zulu.
And I seriously take offense at the idea that the holocaust made the non-Jewish German population happier. And ethnic cleansing, unfortunately, is not unique to Germany but is a trait of many civilizations (even our own).
-Satya
Last edited by satyajedi on 11-01-2002 at 09:46
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nibbles
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actually i dont think the USA one is 2 offensive, the French and Germans ones are def the most offensive of the lot, also the Dark continent as said had nothing to do with the colour of skin but as said the level that Africa was unknown at the time.
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satyajedi
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I appreciate the corrections there, and I do have to admit that mideval history isn't really my thing :-)
I still think the U.S. is the worst, the attack on immigrants is disgracefull & racist.
As for the Dark Continent, it wasn't just a reference to skin color or just to it being unknown... it was both and more. The Dark Continent was dark not just because it was black or unknown but because it was uncivilized, bestial, savage. It was Dark in the sense of "Hearts of Darkness" dark; the antithesis of morality, order, civilization. It's a view that is very much rooted in Victorian racism.
-Satya
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satyajedi
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Well, that Russian post was either pretty stupid, or a pretty good satire of the earlier posts, but it did give me an idea. I think it would be a great addition for Communism to periodically be an involuntary form of government. That is to say, if a democracy consistantly has a substantial number of unhappy people (*regardless* of how many happy people there are) for many turns in a row, the masses rise up and replace your democratic government with a communist government. That would be a disincentive to the luxeries and marketplace oriented strategy of preventing civil disorder, since that strategy usually results in a lot of happy people overcoming a lot of unhappy people (as opposed to religion, which tries to make everybody content). Perhaps fascism could also come about under the same circumstances (or, as an alternative, perhaps fascism is the result of a democracy collapsing due to war weariness).
-Satya
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13-12-2001 06:21
q: 
your idea about forced gov changing due to circumstanses in game is very nice. This way it happens in real life so why not to apply it to Civ also? So I suggest to allow fascism or communism or despotism as a sudden change of democracy in the game by the following rules:
)
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