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Earendil
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I think that Cleopatra is the worst choice of a leader. She is a Greek not even an Egyptian. She is part of the Greek ruling class that was installed by Alexander the great. They ruled Egypt until the romans took over. What make Cleo popular was that she converted to their(the people of Egypt) religion. This is equal to have King Henry V ruler of France. Sure he did rule France but he was an English king that was an occupying ruler, just like Cleo. I cant believe they chose her don't they know anything about history. well that was a little out of order but it realy is a bad choice.
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ntyatecafe
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Georgia, USA
Dec 2001
time: 00:16
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Who would you suggest for Egypt? King Tut? Nefertiti? Or someone else (my knowledge of Egyptian history is pretty vague)
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BanastreTa
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New Haven, CT, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
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I think that Ramses the Great (Ramses II) would be the slam-dunk choice for egyptian leader. Great leader, monumental builder, and there is some evidence to suggest that he is the Biblical Pharaoh. Beyond that, the other best suggestions might be Khufu (Cheops), because his tomb is the Great Pyramid, or Tutankhamen, who was a mediocre leader at best, but is probably the best known pre-ptolemaic pharaoh to the general public.
Joan d'Arc, however, is my submission for the worst choice as a civ leader. Apparently, they tried to shoehorn in some younger women at the expense of historical accuracy...
BT 
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Aeris
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I actually think Mao Zedong as a representative leader of China is mediocre at best. Yes, he totally revolutionized their economy, but in terms of China throughout history, I regretfully do not know as much as I should, but there are surely much better people and much greater rulers of China than Mao.
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Mongoloid Cow
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For Egyptian female leaders, here are the only contenders:
Nefertiti:
Nefertiti was the wife of Pharoah Akheton, the most hated Pharoah in Egypts history, and the mother of Tutankhamun and his sister-wife Ahkesemimut (I think) When Akheton moved Egypt's capital from Itjtawy or Thebes (Waset) to Akhenaten between Abydos (Abjedu) and Lycopolis (Sauty), he rejected her for a younger wife. She is only known for her many busts (the statue kind).
Hatshepsut:
Hatshepsut was the first woman to be Pharoah, because women were not allowed to rule back then. When her husband died and he had only one son, a 3 year-old, she announced herself regent. When he was 7, she took the throne for herself. She led conquests into Nubia and Sinai, and built many monuments, particularly obelisks, all over Egypt. Later she co-ruled with her son, but he soon killed her, took the throne for himself. He had most traces of her existance destroyed except for her huge, hidden tomb south of Dier el-Medina.
Cleopatra VII:
Cleopatra was the daughter of Ptolemy XII and Cleopatra V. She had other siblings, Ptolemy XIII, Ptolemy XIV, Cleopatra VI, Arsinoe IV, Berenice IV, and one cousin, Ptolemy XI. When her father died, her oldest brother (a 13 year-old) was forced to chose a sister to marry. Eventually a civil war ensued, and in the Alexandrian War, her sister Arsinoe IV was proclaimed Pharoah and Cleopatra VI was killed, but Cleopatra with help from Julius Ceasar was declared Pharoah, and had to marry her other brother Ptolemy XIV. She bore Ceasar a son, Ceasarion (Ptoelmy XIV) and ruled with him after having Ptolemy killed. She tried to help Octavian and Antony in their war against Brutus and Crassus (I'm not sure) but a storm held her up. Henceforth when Antony and Octavian won, Marc Antony travelled to Egypt to here why Cleopatra had not helped. He fell in love with her, and Cleopatra gave him a twins - Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene, and another son, Ptolemy Philadelphus. Octavian was outraged at this, and decalred war on Egypt, killed Ceasarion and Antony, and Cleopatra killed herself to avoid being a prisoner. Her children to Antony were raised by Octavian's sister Octavia, who already had 7 children to him.
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dissent
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Joan is by far the most inappropriate leader, but there are many other Civs that had better alternatives, most notably the Persians. Cyrus the Great was without question the greatest Persian leader. I can understand (although not necessarily agree with) the other poor choices, but why Xerxes was chosen instead confounds me.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:16
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Joan of Arc is the worst leader choice in the game. Napoleon should have been France's leader.
I also think the American leader should have been FDR. He is hands down the best president the US ever had. He also was in power longer than anyone else. Although, I don't think Abe is a bad choice. George Washington would be a bad choice. He was only made the first president for two reasons 1. His reputation after the Revolution... 2. All the other so called founding fathers were too much involved in party politics. Another reason GW shouldn't be the American leader is that he didn't have a lasting impression on anything. In his farewell address, he advised against party politics (yeah that worked), he advised against class division (yeah that worked), and he advised against messing with other peoples business (cough Israel cough).
I think Civ 3 should have had a random leader system. With each revolution, the leader should change. For instance, Russia should be led by Stalin or Lenin when they become Commies. Also, their could be an entire list of leaders that could change certain Civ's traits. Hitler should be in the game. Yes, he was a very bad man, but come on, I'd like to kill him. Germany could be hostile to democracies as a fascist state ruled by Hitler, and then friendly to democracies as ruled by Schroeder.
This leads me to another alternative in war. Instead of just conquering a civ, maybe installing a government could be an option. That way, people under democratic govt's wouldn't get all pissed off when you go to war with a bunch of fascists. Then when the war ends, you grant them indepedence and install a certain form of govt. Maybe for Civ 4.
The Egypt situation is also bad. Ramses ][ should have been the leader.
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Rosacrux
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In a Galaxy far, far away...
Oct 2001
time: 05:16
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Alright, Jean D'arc is not only a poor choice for France, but also a completely ridiculous one (a half-crazed peasant girl used by the upcoming French aristocracy and the church to gather support and then delivered to the English... well, whatever, very poor choice).
But, why bickering about Cleo? I mean, she is the most recognisible Egyptian (more on that later) figure, she was a quite succesful ruler if you take into account that her country was not really strong at time and facing the almighty Roman Empire, and she played politics game (mixed with sex in good proportions) to the point that she almost got away with it.
Agreed, she was Greek. But... check out todays Kings-Queens. How many of them are actually not native to the nation they rule. Sure, probably the Spanish royal family are considered Spaniards now, but they derive from Austrian/Danish ancestry. So do most "houses" of Europe.
And mind you, Cleo was the first of the Greek rulers of Egypt that took the time to learn Egyptian (yes, the first in 300 years of Ptolemaic rule that bothered to learn Egyptian!!!) and the first that adopted their subjects faith.
I think you are being harsh with Cleo. On one thing you have right though: She was a uuuuugly ***** 
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johncmcleod
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Coeur d'Alene, ID, USA
Jan 2002
time: 21:16
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The reason they have to do Joan d'Arc, Cleo, and Katharine is because girls would complain if they didn't have leaders in they game. Katharine for the Russians? Give me a break! Stalin was a terrible person and a tyrrant, but he should have been the Russian leader. Hitler probably should be the German leader, though Bismarck was a pretty good selection. Joan d'Arc was a great military leader and a great saint, but she never lead France. Napoleon was one of the greatest military leaders of all time, but he also didn't lead France. I definitely think Charles de Gaulle! (though I didn't agree with him pulling France out of NATO) Cleo shouldn't be one. How about Ramses II? And Ghandi never lead his country for very long, though he was a great man. And, it is kind of dumb the way some of the leaders act. I have been backstabbed by Ghandi a ton. Like Ghandi would gang up on someone. Come on. Well, that's my two cents. And if anyone disagrees, post your feelings. I love
debate.
John
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:16
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My thoughts on the Civ leaders:
I agree about Joan - she should one of France's "great leaders." The overall leader should be either Louis or Napoleon.
China - well, tons of choices here, but I'd go with Chin Chir Yuan Di (I've seen that spelled many different ways, so I apologize if my version is wrong).
Russia - Peter the Great
Egypt - Ramses II
United States - I find it amusing that no one really considers Washington, our first president (myself included). Lincoln is fine, but you could argue for FDR.
Persian - I agree - Cyrus.
Greece - Well, think about it... Alex was a Macedonian, not a Greek. I might go with Solon. The problem is that the actual Greeks were fond of city-states, not empires, so finding one leader for them is hard. Hence, Alexander.
-Arrian
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13-12-2001 07:49
I wouldn't call her Jeanne of Arc, and you wouldn't call Frederick the Great Frederick the Grosse or whatever
) I think Frederick is fine.
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