13-01-2002 12:48									#31
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Hmmm, I've never insulted anyone on these boards yet but Pompey's definitely tempting.

Chill, let us make ourselves our own civ, we're not asking everyone to play it. We just want it for ourselves.

I've never been a flag-waver and I'm not about to start now.
We Cdns shoot ourselves in the foot when we try to be americans and brashly overstate our importance. Those who consider themselves so much better than us should ask themselves whether they need to push us down so they can feel taller.
Remember, if you lack the skill to play well, just toot your horn louder!

The reality? Economically we are quite significant. Politically less so. Culturally, we remain a young nation. Militarily - significant only during specific time periods. Do we deserve to be in Civ 3? No more than the US, but no less than the Iroquois. So why not?

As for a UU, may I suggest an upgraded destroyer?
Mounties don't have any representable skills. As for PKs, yes, we have a very good peacekeeping rep, but it's not for our fighting prowess. it's for our diplomacy and the fact that we seem less belligerent, and seem to have less vested interest, thus we seem more impartial than our neighbouring "world policeman" to the south, or even our "friendly father" across the sea. We appear carry less baggage. We may not, but the image counts. Lester would agree. We have long be nuke capable, but why bother? it's costly and would damage our 'peaceful' image. besides uncle sam's got plenty to go around.

The destroyer is better because of how important it was to the war effort in WW1 and 2. Americans often say they won the war for GB, but Cdns were the ones who kept the Brits alive long enough for the Yanks to finally decide to join in. (the french and other europeans also played a big role - delaying the german push and actively resisting. kudos especially to the 9 norwegians who sacrificed so much to stop the german atomic program by sabotaging the heavy water plant at Vemork. the russians played a big part too, though in 1 they quit cuz of revolution and in 2 Stalin had a N.A.P. til 41. 'nuff said.)

How about increasing its movement and defense value. They were invaluable for convoys getting arms & supplies to Britain.
Hmm, increase attack too, since you've got to sink Uboats. No bombard increase though - it wasn't a battleship.
(today's new frigates are the fastest combat ships out there, plus everything is done by missile/anti-missile now so they easily outrange yesteryear's battleships - *obviously no ship can outrun a missile)

Admittedly the current state of our military leaves much to be desired but WW1 and 2 proves Canada can be a forced to be reckoned with when it's fully mobilized. UK beware, we won't automatically jump to it next time. There's too many of us non-Anglos here now.

Commercial and Industrious would be my preference. Americans were more expansionistic in the sense that they settled the land faster. We just explored it. (course, we weren't a nation til 1867)
Industrious because that's the type of people who immigrated here and continue to today. those looking for a new home to make a better life than the one they left behind - starting from scratch you'd better be industrious!
Commercial because trading companies sponsored the first explorers, expeditions, and outposts. can you say export?

Caveat, I usually play with unique attribs turned off. I like a level playing field.

	14-01-2002 08:01									#32
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its too bad diplomatic wasn't an attribute. That is why canada is such a strong nation today, because of strong friendships and very few enemies.

But commercial for sure. Yes our dollar is weak, when you compare it to the US. But that is like putting some of us into a boxing ring with Tyson or Lewis. When you compare us to the strongest economy in the world, it will make us look weak.

Anyways, good work on the faces. I don't care who it is, just as long as it isn't Chretien or Kim Campbell.

	15-01-2002 04:57									#33
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Well I read all of the posts and all of them have very good ideas. In hindsight all of the UU are pretty much equally reasonable so there is no way to decide. I disagree with the attributes though Canada was never incredibly commercial relying more on exporting raw products etc. (Industrious) I would say that after Canada became a nation in 1867 in about 4 years it grew by 5 times at least probably more, I would say thats pretty expansionistic. You don't have to invade to be expansionistic, expansion through treaties is still expansion.

	16-01-2002 08:00									#34
	Canadian Mod - Madeline Forever Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I still think Madeline de Vercheres is the better Canadian leader, however I did have to think twice about that when I read that maybe Trudeau was chosen as a subtle irony.....

But, then again Madeline was a sufficiently heroic Canadian that she was featured in WWI recruiting posters. I don't think Pierre (shrug) would have had quite that cachet.

Although, here we still use the Trudeau salute now and then.

(Yes - I probably spelled Madeleine incorrectly, but I don't have my history texts handy so if you want to complain about that - Fuddle Duddle (sorry, I don't really mean that)).

P.S. For our Yank friends who may not know it, not only did Canada at one point have the world's largest navy in WWII (I think, subject to better information) and the reputation of the 'ladies from Hell' (kilted troops) that apparently scared the Germans in WWI more than any other (although I'm not sure whether it was more than the Ghurkas?) but......

...after Sitting Bull massacred the 7th Cavalry he and his followers fled to Canada. They were met by the NWMP who escorted them to a camp and enjoined them to keep the peace.

The force that met and dealt with Sitting Bull's army was one constable - and if I remember correctly his nickname was "Peaches".

Although I kind of like the Mountie on that basis, a truly Canadian UU would be either "kilted infantry" with a larger attack strength, or the corvette that was cheap and effective in (convoy) defense. I don't think we were ever that big on destroyers, although our Yank friends provided a number through lend-lease - it was really the corvettes that did the job (IMHO)

Last edited by Changmai Beagle on 16-01-2002 at 08:08

	18-01-2002 09:38									#35
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Canada made a decision to not become a military power after world war 2. In the future (50- 100 years) they will most likely become part of the US. Adding them to the game would be good but only for industrial ages since that is when they fought with the british against america and maybe in early modern. That would be what their uu would be in. As for Australia. I can see that if the game was CTP 2 where you had sea units. Because if there was such a thing as sea cities I am sure autralia would take advantage of such a technology. Possibly become a major power, if they are lucky. I guarntee though that we would colonize Mars before Australia does anything like that. As they are a military power of sorts and have a army/navy/airforce. They would make no sence in CIV 3 though, Canada would. However not enough to have them added to the game by Firaxis. Unless they decided to add a **** load of civs like in CTP. (Canada and Australia was in that game, right?)

	18-01-2002 09:41									#36
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One civ that should be in the game should be Isreal though. I would personally say remove the Iriquois and have them. Aztecs are indians themselves so I am sure if Native Americans got pissed at them for not having them they could and would argue that point. Israel shaped our history more than Native Americans. Without them there would be no Christians no Muslims and of course no Jews. Which would make the world a very very different place.

	18-01-2002 10:49									#37
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Madeline who? Spell it? I don't even know how to pronounce it!

But as long as you guys know your history I suppose it's kewl.

quote: Canada made a decision to not become a military power after world war 2. In the future (50- 100 years) they will most likely become part of the US. Adding them to the game would be good but only for industrial ages since that is when they fought with the british against america and maybe in early modern.

That is true. It was a conscious and deliberate decision, as was the decision to provide the world with the first international Peacekeeping forces in the history of mankind. I doubt that CAN with become "politically" a state of US. Latest McLean's polls indicate a general drift of the Canadian population to favor now, more than ever Canada's way of life. Though Canadian industry is becoming more globalized, which should not be confused for Americanized.

What do sea cities have to do with Australia? I hope this slight on Australia is not a continuation of my insults directed specifically and exclusively at that Pompey idiot. It was more prodding in hopes that an uneducated and culturally void being might look up his own country's history. Australia's contributions to the world as we know it are HUGELY significant.

	29-01-2002 10:56									#38
	MOD: Canadian: Trudeau Leaderhead Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I got a little problem with this file, whenever I goto download it, I don't get a zip file, but afile called "attachment" any ideas with what I need to do?

And I think the special unit should be the shock troops.

I downloaded it correctly, so forget the above

Last edited by WolverineD12 on 29-01-2002 at 11:06

	29-01-2002 12:39									#39
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Hey Puritan, you might want to check this thread out.

	31-01-2002 11:12									#40
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ok, here is the deal I first of all peacekeepers would make a good Uniquie unit because it was Lester B. Pearson, the soon to be Prime Minister, who invented them after all. And its not like the other uu's in the game can't be applied to other civs, I mean how many civ's had a bowman, or have F-15's? A uu doesn't mean that the civ is the only one that used it, it just means that they are well known for it or it was a very important unit for that culture, more so than others.

Oh yeah and any American who thinks Canada will be part of the States doesn't know to much about Canada, thats like saying Quebec will join France cause they both speak French, it just won't happen.

Here is the deal I call for a vote on what you people think the UU should be. I vote for the Shock Troop, unless someone could tell me how a Peacekeeper unit would work.

	31-01-2002 11:26									#41
	MOD: Canadian: Trudeau Leaderhead Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I vote on a Beaver Swarm equipped with Maple Syrup gernades! They should be wearing toques, and the 2 beavers in the back should be dragging a case of beer!

They'd be the pride of Canada!

	05-02-2002 23:12									#42
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How about the Arrow ? I know that it comes late in the game but why not ? I'd give it more range.

	10-02-2002 03:11									#43
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quote: Originally posted by wunder I've been waiting forever for something like this. I've been using the Iroquois as a canadian civ ever since the game came out. I cna now actualy have a true canadian civ!! Right on Thanks again

So why are you so keen on a Canadian civ? Do you have some secret desire to invade us or something? Not that I'm worried, the first time you Yanks go for R&R, you'll get so wasted drinking real beer, we'll be able to disarm you while you're sleeping it off.

	10-02-2002 03:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by muppet What is so embarrassing about a small population with a well trained police force capably of operating in the capacity of light cavalry during a crisis? Canadian technological achievements in policing (extension of peacekeeping) are apparently being used in Australia. For a small population, Canada has made an enormous contribution to the world. A very disproportionate contribution in industrial output, personnel and effort in the past and presently. Canadian peacekeeping forces (infantry units), their efforts and effectiveness, speak for themselves.

Your missing something. Because of a Canadian discovering insulin, thousands of diabetics all over the world can now expect to lead a more or less normal life.

	10-02-2002 03:28									#45
	Re: Pssssssst Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Richelieu How about the Arrow ? I know that it comes late in the game but why not ? I'd give it more range.

Yes, and we could give it a special ability of being dismantled just before it's completed construction.

	10-02-2002 03:34									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Stefu What the hell's Pompey's point? He's anti-Canadian? How could anyone be anti-Canadian? Canadians are so harmless!

I don't think the German infantry in 2 World Wars would agree to that statement.

	10-02-2002 03:45									#47
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quote: Originally posted by srlumpy Canadians kind of deserve a mark on civ3... but not really. Let's ne honest, they were a minor scratch to the fledgling USA and perhaps if they remember that they were or are still mostly british. they still are a mere colony or they call it a confederacy. None-the-less... if some clown is going to make a civ resembling the borg... why not canadians hmm, the CF-18... sounds like the F-18... very intresting

You show the usual lack of knowledge about our country that we've come expect from your country. First of all, we have much more in common with Americans culturally than we do with British, and have for quite some time. We eat the same foods, we watch the same TV shows, we listen to the same music etc. etc. We don't have tea and crumpets, we don't play cricket, we don't even speak with an accent. Aside from those in Quebec of course.

Secondally, we are not a colony, we are an autonomous state and have been since 1867. We elect our own leaders, we make our own laws etc. etc. The only role the British have in our affairs is strictly ceremonial, a nostalgic reminder of our roots, which some of us would be more than happy to let go of.

	11-02-2002 11:53									#48
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I didn't read all the thread yet (sorry )
But i would personally love to have a Canadian civilization in the game!
I think is much better than the Iroquois!!
I hope you will use the mountie as UU! That is the specific unit the Canadian are famous all around the world!
And most of all i like the idea of a Defensive cavalry, and it would perfectly fit in a Civilization of pacifist people like the Canadian

Canada civilization

Good job guys!

Saluti

	12-02-2002 08:22									#49
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Aaw, ****! The secret's out. We have sea cities!!!!!!

	12-02-2002 10:24									#50
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It's a minor technicality, but untill 1982, our constitution act allowed the British parliment to pass law here. But thats beside the point. I think a Canadian civilization would be great, regardless of wether we qualify as a "civilization" or not. It's a game, for heavens sake, it's meant to amuse, not educute and reach historical perfection (although Civ III provides a lot of information on units, buildings and the like...which I think is great). As for a UU, I think it should be the Mountie...maybe a modern one? By that, I don't mean a squad car parked outside Tim Hortens (just kidding of course). But maybe a unit like infantry thats higher on defense. I also think Sir John A. MacDonald should be the leader, but that'd be a lot more difficult...and I'm not particularly fond of him. But just so long as it isn't Cretian, I'd be happy.

	12-02-2002 10:58									#51
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I do quite enjoy your username, Bi-Polar-Bear.

While I may personally not feel Canada is necessarily civ-worthy, there're worse choices, and although the game is already incredibly Euro-or-Eurodescended-centric, what's the harm of letting anyone use the mod they want, it's not like anyone's going to be forced to play as or against the Canadians.
I like the idea of the Mountie UU just because of how cool the unit'd look

	12-02-2002 11:41									#52
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Hehe, glad you like it. Most people misunderstand it and make assumptions I'd rather they not make...

What do you mean by "not civ-worthy"? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm actually curious.

And something I meant to mention in my previous post, I think Canada should be Expansionistic and Industrious. We still rely heavily on primary (mining, harvesting, lumbering) and secondary (processing, canning) industries. But I'm not very fond of Expansionistic. I think Expansionistc civ's should get the same corruption benifit that Commercial civilizations get, to offset the natural suckness of Expansionist. It makes sense, too, since a civilization that expands a lot would be good at coping with problems like corruption.

	13-02-2002 02:36									#53
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I agree with Bi-Polar Bear with looking at Sir John MacDonald s a Canadian leader. Canadian history is filled with movements and fears that the country was going to split apart: the distance and lack of access, and poor representation in parliament of the western provinces nearly caused the country to split, the metis revolt in what is now Manitoba, and the Parti Quebecois are but a few examples of this tension. Some of these issues still come up to this day. But I doubt Canada would be what it is today without John MacDonald. Canada would probably be a collection of smaller nations and/or U.S. states without the passage of the Constitution Act in 1867. MacDonald would be an effective symbol of Canadian unity. How you find happy, neutral, and angry pics of John MacDonald is beyond me, though.

Possible UU could be some form of sonar-equipped boat (a Canadian invention) or an Alpine Mountie. The Mounties greatest moment was probably when they maintained and aided prospectors to the Yukon, maybe something could be made of that.

Whether Canada is a worthwhile Civ is a pointless argument, I know if there wasn't an American civilization in Civ3, I'd be looking for the mod, why can't others? Speaking of which, my knowledge of Canada isn't too shabby for a kid from Kansas City, eh?

	13-02-2002 08:11									#54
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Cairo - Pas mal, pas mal!

Slight additions - Canada was created as a separate country under the British North America Act in 1867 (changed to the Constitution Act in 1982) , and the first separatist party elected was in Nova Scotia just after Confederation (Joseph Howe, I believe) so the tension has been around a fairly long time even without going back to the French/English issue.

I still like the 'Ladies from Hell' as the UU. P.S. There's a movie about one of the Canadian kilted brigades who were joined with an American unit. It's called The Devil's Brigade, I believe. It was based on a true story about a joint unit trained in Montana (IIRC)- and I think they were involved at Monte Casino(?).

	17-02-2002 04:18									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Cairo_East ... and poor representation in parliament of the western provinces nearly caused the country to split, the metis revolt in what is now Manitoba, and

I admire a Yank who knows something of our history. However you need a slight correction here. The Metis revolt happened before Manitoba was part of Canada. In fact, it was because of the revolts that Manitoba was established. Before then the area was still technically British.

	17-02-2002 11:52									#56
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quote: In the future (50- 100 years) they will most likely become part of the US.

I beg your pardon?! We will never become part of the US!

	18-02-2002 05:59									#57
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Sorry about confusing the BNA Act and the Constitution Act. I have a problem with remembering both the name of the act and what it did. I always confuse the Compromise of 1820 and the Compromise of 1850 here in the USA, when they deal with two completely different things.

I know the Metis revolt occurred prior to the creation of Manitoba, that's why I said "in what is now Manitoba". Admittedly it was a part of Britain, but the revolt had a larger impact on Canadian history than British history. Semantics and technicalities, I apologize.

How about Pelletier and Sale being co-rulers of Canada? I've seen enough happy, indifferent, and angery pictures of them in the past few days to make a collage of MODs.

	18-02-2002 06:14									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Cairo_East Sorry about confusing the BNA Act and the Constitution Act. I have a problem with remembering both the name of the act and what it did. I always confuse the Compromise of 1820 and the Compromise of 1850 here in the USA, when they deal with two completely different things.

Hey, no need to apologize, you're doing extremely well. You're talking about things that even I'm hazy about. It's been quite awhile since high school history. We've come to expect that Americans know nothing about our country, so it's a pleasant surprise when one of you does. It wouldn't surprise me if some of your countrymen/women still think we live in igloos, and get around by dog sled. So cheers neighbour!

	18-02-2002 06:33									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Willem It wouldn't surprise me if some of your countrymen/women still think we live in igloos, and get around by dog sled. So cheers neighbour!

I have a good footnote to that: One of the professors in my department is from Ontario (I'm at Penn State University). He had a former student who was living in Atlanta that called him up and asked him about polar bears. He assumed that since he was Canadian, he was an expert on all thing polar.

I actually gained a lot of my knowledge a few semesters back when I did a research project on the black migration from Oklahoma to Alberta around the year 1905. I realized I only had a cursory understanding of Canadian history, and just did a bit of historical research on Canada. The great thing is that I was the only student to get an "A" on the paper.

	18-02-2002 06:50									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Cairo_East I have a good footnote to that: One of the professors in my department is from Ontario (I'm at Penn State University). He had a former student who was living in Atlanta that called him up and asked him about polar bears. He assumed that since he was Canadian, he was an expert on all thing polar. I actually gained a lot of my knowledge a few semesters back when I did a research project on the black migration from Oklahoma to Alberta around the year 1905. I realized I only had a cursory understanding of Canadian history, and just did a bit of historical research on Canada. The great thing is that I was the only student to get an "A" on the paper.

We have an occasional comedy special where this guy will go down to the States and bait Americans with really absurd questions about Canada, and it's sometimes hilarious to hear what they fall for. One time he was at a Bush campaign rally, before he was president, and Bush didn't even know who our Prime Minister was, nor did the Governor of Minnesota. He had them convinced it was Prime Minister Poutine, which is a Quebecois food dish. It was really pathetic, especially coming from the Governor of Minnesota. We're practically next door neighbours for crying out loud! And it certainly didn't inspire any confidence in Bush at the time, that's for sure.

I think if it wasn't for Sept. 11, our governments would have been at each other's throats by now. We certainly weren't to crazy about the idea of Bush becoming President. I'm sure there were many Canadian politicians who were sorry to see Clinton go, especially when Bush started cancelling treaty after treaty.