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Out-of-the-blue
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OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
Feb 2002
time: 05:16
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Canada should have some sort of Shock Trooper, or Elite Infantry...I mean we were known as the Allied Waffen SS. We would take German POWs and force them to sit on our recon vehicles so we could go deep into german territory without being shot at...
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Timw1996
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Virginia, USA
Nov 2001
time: 00:16
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I would really like to have an Ariel Sharon leaderhead or some other Isreal leader.
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Lumpx
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I think that one possiblity for the peacekeeper would to have it like the privateer, able to attack units without reprocutions. Perhaps only against countries currently ingaged in a war. Make it standard infantry.
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Captain
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by Divine Right
May 2001
time: 00:16
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Cairo_East, your knowledge is great!
A lot of Canadians like to think our southern neighbours are all ignorant boors - thanks for proving them wrong. sometimes I have to remind my friends that anti-americanism is not a virtue. It's also a shame that while many Canadians consider Americans ignorant, many Canadians have scant knowledge of America.
The whole issue of Canadian-American relations is pretty interesting but too often it boils down to silly arguments, like the supposed claim that Canada is more compassionate than the US because of its social welfare system (which in actual fact is more similar to the US version than we like to admit). A lot of Cdns also hate US "flag-waving", but in recent years, we're as guilty of that sort of unbridled nationalism as the US is. 
Still, that's not to say I think Martin Sheen would make a better president than your current one (for that matter, he'd be better than Chretien too). And, despite my words so far, it's still not to stop me from saying We whupped the USA in hockey!
There's a great book on this whole "inferiority complex" thing by Will Ferguson called "Why I Hate Canadians". Check it out sometime. It's an interesting look at how many Canadians look at their national identity as an anti-thesis, especially being dwarfed culturally, economically, and politically...
as for the civ,
maybe Laurier as leader, I think he was the most rationale leader that still actually accomplished something...
upgraded destroyer for UU...
commercial & industrial...
btw, CBC has got a short docu-drama?mini-series? about the life of Trudeau coming on soon. we'll see how much propaganda that one's carrying.
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Cairo_East
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Kansas City
Feb 2002
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain
There's a great book on this whole "inferiority complex" thing by Will Ferguson called "Why I Hate Canadians". Check it out sometime. It's an interesting look at how many Canadians look at their national identity as an anti-thesis, especially being dwarfed culturally, economically, and politically...
as for the civ,
maybe Laurier as leader, I think he was the most rationale leader that still actually accomplished something...
upgraded destroyer for UU...
commercial & industrial...
btw, CBC has got a short docu-drama?mini-series? about the life of Trudeau coming on soon. we'll see how much propaganda that one's carrying. |
Thanks for the complements, I didn't expect them when I made my posts. I checked for the book in our massive library system here in my university. It didn't come up, but I did find it for sale at chapters.ca . On the web site for the book, it had this:
Our customers who bought this item also bought-
* Bastards & Boneheads: Our Glorious... (1999) Book ~ Will Ferguson
* Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2000) Book ~ J.K. Rowling
* Quo Vadis (2000) Book ~ Henryk Sienkiewicz
* Kathy Smith: Kickboxing Workout (1999) VHS
...interesting.
I've also suggested Lester Pearson as a possible leader. Although he didn't do much domestically, he is probably the best known Canadian politician in the world today with his Nobel Prize winning resolution of the Suez Crisis.
As for the Pierre Trudeau story, I was in Toronto the week following his death (I've only been to Canada twice, the other time in BC & Lake Louise). Therre was quite an outpouring of Canadian nationalism at the time. I found the suspension of civil liverties in Montreal to be quite surprising. Not that it's above the USA to do such a thing (Pres. Wilson in WWI, Lincoln in Civil War).
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Captain
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by Divine Right
May 2001
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Cairo_East
On the web site for the book, it had this:
Our customers who bought this item also bought-
* Bastards & Boneheads: Our Glorious... (1999) Book ~ Will Ferguson
* Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2000) Book ~ J.K. Rowling
* Quo Vadis (2000) Book ~ Henryk Sienkiewicz
* Kathy Smith: Kickboxing Workout (1999) VHS
...interesting.
As for the Pierre Trudeau story, I was in Toronto the week following his death (I've only been to Canada twice, the other time in BC & Lake Louise). Therre was quite an outpouring of Canadian nationalism at the time. I found the suspension of civil liverties in Montreal to be quite surprising. Not that it's above the USA to do such a thing (Pres. Wilson in WWI, Lincoln in Civil War). |
Yes, sorry i gave the wrong impression with the book, it's a light-hearted perspective (you could almost say satire) but its basic premise is many Canadians derive their self of identity from the opposite of whatever America is, and it's chock full of self-deprecating "inside" jokes. More a fun read than accurate analysis.
Anecdotal, but when you read it and you think "gee, that really describes my friend X", it's funny how bang on it is. It's got stuff like five pages of children's verbatim descriptions of what Canada is (basically, Canada has beautiful wilderness, Canadians are nice people, Canada is not the USA - which is pretty amusing when one considers how national identity often boils down to this dreck)
Personally I've never really understood why Trudeau is considered such a hero by many. Sure he supported stuff like the Constitution and Human Rights legislation, and he was a dynamic personality (compared to a lot of the middle of the road stuffed shirts these days) - but when push came to shove, his leadership didn't match his noble ideals. 
Too much cynicism, I know. The more I read about history or politics, the worse it gets...
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Willem
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain
Personally I've never really understood why Trudeau is considered such a hero by many. Sure he supported stuff like the Constitution and Human Rights legislation, and he was a dynamic personality (compared to a lot of the middle of the road stuffed shirts these days) - but when push came to shove, his leadership didn't match his noble ideals.
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I suspect it was much the same sort of the thing as the influence of The Beatles at the time, being in the right place at the right time. Trudeau was a modern leader at a time when our culture and society was going through a lot of changes. In many ways, he exemplified those changes, became a symbol for them. Compared to him, the rest of the political establishment was dour and old-fashioned. He seemed to embody the new ideas that were going around then, and wasn't afraid of them, like some of his peers were at the time. People felt that he reflected the changes that they themselves were having to deal with, that he understood them, better than any politician around at that time, even in the States.
And he wasn't afraid of standing up to the US, of putting our interests ahead of theirs. That was something Canada hadn't seen in a leader for quite awhile. The Avro Arrow being a good example of this.
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JohnnyCanuck
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Vancouver, BC
Mar 2002
time: 05:16
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First of all this guy is making this mod so that we Canadians (and anyone else who is so inclined) can play as Canada for fun (IN A GAME). If you don't want to, but out!
So now on to the real discussion...
The Infantry shock troop is a good idea, in WWI Canadians quickly earned a reputation as being amoung the best of all troops to serve in the great war.
When Canadians arrived in Britain there were images in the paper of a "Canadian dagger ready to be thrust into the heart of Germany." However this image rapidly faded. By this time the valient fire that was displayed in WWI had deteriorated. We faught valiently to distinguish ourselves as a great, and SEPERATE nation in WWI. For some reason or another this was not as prevalent in WWII, but we still became a small yet elite army after training for a few years in Britain.
Beyond a doubt our main contributions, which were far more usefull than most non-Canadian history books will give credit for, were our roles in providing Britain with raw resources and protecting the convoys on route.
This Brings up one possibility for a UU: It should not be a destroyer, but a Corvette! A very small but incredibly sturdy and versatile boat. It was ideal for harrasing submarines. In reality a typical type VII Uboat could outgun a corvette on the surface, but they never tried for fear of the corvettes speed and maneuverbility. These boats were mass produced and much more valuable in convoy protection than the destroyers that appeared later and in fewer numbers. The key to convoy protection, remember, is to have adequate numbers not powerfull ships.
But is that really the best military unit we have used in a war? Was it the infantry? The Corvette? No, there is something even better: The Lancaster Night Bomber! This was the BEST bomber of WWII, designed in Britain it was mass produced in Canada and flown by RCAF pilots. Some people say the Lancaster was more of a precision bomber, which is true, but it also could carry the largest payload of any WWII bomber! It was one hell of a plane, that is for sure.
Yet still, i think beyond anything the UU of a civ should reflect something about the civilization. For that reason the Mountie is the only logical choice. For one it is the most recognizable Canadian unit around the world. That much is evident from some of our foreign friends posting in this thread. Secondly, the concept of a defencive calvalry reflects our national identity much better. Canada is the antithesis of an aggressive nation. For that reason beyond anything, the Mountie should be the Canadian UU.
I think Commercial is a good choice for Canada as well because of the reduced corruption. We never had a "wild west" like the Americans did because of the RCMP. Today the RCMP is still unique in the world as it is the only national, federal, provincial and municipal policing body serving the majority of our country.
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Marcus Agrippa
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Canada would be an interesting Civ to have. Canada might be nothing more than an offshoot of Britain, but the same can be said of the US. And, for that matter, Britain is just an offshoot of Rome. ;-)
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machiavelli137
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A bad thing about the mountie as a UU, though, is that Cossacks pretty much
take care of it: cavalry with a higher defense. Unless you want to replace Russia
with Canada. I mean, in some ways, it makes sense.
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JohnnyCanuck
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Vancouver, BC
Mar 2002
time: 05:16
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A better idea for the mountie is to have higher defence but lower attack to reflect our pacifist nature. That way the cossack is an entirely different unit.
Canadian mountie could be 4/5/3 perhaps.
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NMiller5a
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United States
Mar 2002
time: 19:16
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It's unbeleivable that some people are getting so mad over a Canadian mod for Civ 3. Its true that Canada is far from being one of the most powerful and influential nations of all time, but why get so upset over a modification to let them in? People who don't want it don't have to get it. Its that simple.
I think a couple of the Canadians are over-stating Canada's contribution to the world. Its true that some inventions have come from Canada, but that is true for basically every country. Canada's troops in the World Wars weren't a determining factor. Without the United States, the allies would've surely lost (especially WW2.)
I may be wrong, but I remember someone saying that Canada's contribution to global civilization is at the same level as that of the United States. That is terribly wrong. The airplane, modern Democracy, the internet, electricity, the light bulb (by a Canadian living in America), and many other things were all invented or discovered in America. And don't forget, fast food, soda, jeans, and many other elements of the new "global" culture all started in the United States. Canada's important, but doesn't come close to America.
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JohnnyCanuck
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Vancouver, BC
Mar 2002
time: 05:16
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Hi NMiller5a, you are exactly right.
America is and always has been 10 times the size of Canada, and their contributions are generally to the same proportion (ten times greater than Canada's contributions) in whatever issue you are talking about.
Canadians seem to over-state Canada's contributions in defence of their country. This isn't always a bad thing, we have to be nationalistic to avoid losing our unique identity forever to American culture.
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erikmistal
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If someone were to make this it would be pretty funny.
Mad: Show him giving the middle finger
Happy: Show him doing a piroette
Neutral: Show him... being neutral
Defeated: Show him with the middle finger, only have him with scratches and bandages etc...
So long!
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Switch
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This just in, water has been discovered on Mars...
Apr 2002
time: 00:16
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First, I don't like getting into petty discussions, but Pompey, that was about as ignorant as people booing the national anthem of their neighbours (both us and the US are guilty of that, I'm afraid). Just because a Civ is small, it doesn't mean you have to say it's insignificent and shouldn't be played for fun. And I don't know about you, but up here we have this thing, I'm not sure how to describe it, but most people call it tact. If your gonna talk with people who aren't your best friends that don't care if you badmouth'em, you NEED to learn it.
Now, if Canada never existed, we wouldn't have insulin, penisilin, time zones, snowblowers, telephones, etc, and most importantly, an amazing accent eh? I'm not saying we did a lot, but what we did do is pretty important. And more importantly, these people are working on the Canadian civ simply because it's fun, and its neat to play out your own country's history. I mean, if people didn't have fun making stuff, where would the giant mind-controlled squid in RA2 be? (yes, they actually put it in there because they thought it would be fun).
Secondly,, and to the more important subject, for the UU I'm not really all that sure what it should be...if you're going for a serious civ here, then go for the shock troops (replace rifleman, 5/6/1. That would be about when WWI was). However, in the spirit of the thread, I'd have to say Mounties (replace Cavalry, 6/4/3. Better defence, like Mounties are mainly defensive, plus has a ZOC, i.e. patrolling and border guarding. Or 7/3/3 to keep different from Cossak, though 6/4/3 is better. The 5/5/3 idea ain't bad, though).
And again, if you want to be serious, John A. Macdonald would be a better leader (he officially created Canada), though again, Trudeau is the better choice. Everybody knows of Trudeau (at least IN Canada)
Last edited by Switch on 04-05-2002 at 12:06
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WW1 Nut
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hrrm the US was the ones that won the wars eh?
well for starters they are known woldwide as "operation rainbow" because as we all know the rainbow always comes AFTER THE STORM!
And to quote General Ludendorff (possibly one of the best generals of all time easily better than patton)
"The value of the American troops lies not in their ability to fight but in their ability to relieve British troops in quite sections of the lines."
(in other words they sucked)
I think Laura Seacord should be a hero just because she beat the US army....
Somehow we need to incorperate Canadian Troops burning the white house.. oh yeah they never taught that did they, the reason it's white is because that was the only paint they had left to cover the burn marks after the Canadian's were through with Washington
I personally think we should have an infantry unit known as the Black Watch 'cause they were the elite commandos in WWI
DIDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE DID WE! yeah bugger off! we won WW1, note the placement of the Canadian troops and the German reserve forces, the germans knew that they needed all the help they could get cause wherever the Canadian's were there was trouble
Didn't do anything in WW2? How about Dieppe, damn I hate idiots. We were used as the first test beach landing, without the Canadian's there wouldn't have been a D-Day, or a VJ-Day for that matter.
What did the Aussies do? well they play great rugby.. they get shot at... and make the premise for one HELL of a bad movie staring Mel Gibson when he still had the accent...
oh and in WW1, Canada went from an unranked position to the third largest navy in the world, that includes Great Britan at it's height and Germany trying to catch Britan.
OH and to all those Americans who think their country is sooo great? well look at this Canada lost more soldiers (to british incompetance friggan Haig) in WW1 than the US has lost ever (total), that doesn't mean America's better, no it means we have balls and aren't afraid to take a couple of punches and keep going.
(ps we beat Australia in under 19 wold rugby, so really soon they won't even have rugby .. boo hoo Friggan Croc Hunter he should be shot)
Yes Canada does deserve a place in the Civ games, the only reason it wasen't included is because it came later in history, the only reason USA is there is because the game wouldn't have made as much money cause they're conceited bastards over there. We did alot (not to mention that a guy in toronto invented the paint roller  )
Any one that thinks there is a more industrious country in the world I would looove to see them try and top Canada, why 3 simple words ... Hudson's Bay Company hehehehe top that, it owned more land than the US did at the time.
AND TO ALL THE AMERICANS UUUUUUUUU there's a U in coloUr and in honoUr
for our special unit I'd propose JTF2, yeah nobody knows about it really, but remember that's the point, they're secret commando troops that rival those that come out of Switzerland and the German Mountain school.
Ranger, Marines, Green Berets, Aussies, they just blow.
(anyone want to make a Canada vs USA mod?)
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123john321
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I LOVE IT!!!! THANKS FOR MAKING IT!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Komet163
(...)Personally I would probably have the "Shock Troop" which is an infantry with an extra attack point reflecting the Canadian Expiditionary Force in WWI which had many victories at Vimy Ridge and Passchendale etc. |
Well I made the Peacekeeper, with low attack, high defences, movement at 3, cost 1 cizten, and does everything a worker does.
quote:
Originally posted by Komet163
(...)Here is the deal I call for a vote on what you people think the UU should be. I vote for the Shock Troop, unless someone could tell me how a Peacekeeper unit would work. |
Well, you could have high d, low attack, cost 1 cizten, and does everthing a worker does
quote:
Originally posted by Captain
(...)There's a great book on this whole "inferiority complex" thing by Will Ferguson called "Why I Hate Canadians". Check it out sometime. It's an interesting look at how many Canadians look at their national identity as an anti-thesis, especially being dwarfed culturally, economically, and politically...
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Love that book, a quote from the book is in my sig.
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tanky24
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I AM CANADIAN!!! To state for the record, what canada HAS accomplished... Graham Bell was a Canadian, who invented the telephone, Bombardier (not sure first name) Invented snowmobile and of course builds most aircrafts of today, 75% of the apollo space program was done mostly in Canada because we are a scientific people and we have more then enough resources. We invented the Canadarm, which if it was never built... neither would have the International Space Station.
It was said, NO ONE!!! wanted our land, the Americans had tried MANY!!! times in 300 years and failed everytime, and Canada even invaded the US and burnt down the white house and the capitol building, rather then occupying, we went back up home to canada.
During WW1 and WW2, the united states took most of canada's credit for huge military campaigns that toppled the Germans and the Nazi's , best example is vimy ridge and Beaches of Normandy.
Today Canada has a shitty military, very true... but is was our choice. We felt and still believe that Free Universal Medicare is far more important. Honestly, you can only have one or the other.
Now to say Canada or America is not a civilization is false and true, only by what you define a civiliation.
If you believe that to be a civilation a nation must have an ancient culture and must exist for a long time.Then Canada or America or not civiliations. If you consider a ation must contribute in some profound way to the cultures of the world, then both America & Canada are civiliations.
The AUSTALIAN who bashed canada eailier was right in saying australia has accomplished very little, but what can you expect from a former British Penal Colony.
BTW Just because we are in the northern hemisphere doesnt mean nothing is here, we are considered to have the largest amount of natural resources in the ENITRE world (stuff form civ 3)ei., Lumber, Gold, Oil, Iron, Cattle, Wheat, Fish, Whales, Fur.
Canada however is not expanisionist, we're Scientific/Commercial and our prefered government is Democracy in my MOD i use Federalist Democracy it has Universal Medicare (double you pleasure MOD)
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20-02-2002 03:04
What a jacka$$.
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