15-12-2001 12:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov quote: BECAUSE of the Liberty You still remember that??

Siro, we're Americans.

We remember the Alamo.

Think about it.

	15-12-2001 12:15									#32
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who won alamo?

	15-12-2001 12:16									#33
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Dirty Mexicans did. How dare they protect their borders.

	15-12-2001 14:36									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov It was published by an ex-employee of MI6, that the agency knew in advance about the plans of terrorists to bomb the Israeli embassy, and they did nothing about it. They didn't stop the terrorists, neither did they inform the Israelis.

Remember the Hizballah teract against the Marines HQ in Lebanon? There were similar reports that the Mossad knew about it.

	15-12-2001 15:18									#35
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Dirty Mexicans did. How dare they protect their borders.

I'd think you'd like the Alamo, seeing how it was the site where revolutionaries died before their imperial oppressors (ie, Texas rebellion again Mexican rule).

	15-12-2001 15:26									#36
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But they were evil land stealing settlers.

	15-12-2001 15:33									#37
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Indians aren't people though .

	15-12-2001 21:23									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'd think you'd like the Alamo, seeing how it was the site where revolutionaries died before their imperial oppressors (ie, Texas rebellion again Mexican rule).

That war was started as a general rebellion throught out Mexico against Santa Ana's centralist coup. Most of it was fought ouside of Texas and the revolutionaries in the other mexican states were crushed (the most notable atrocity being the sacking of Zacetecas). Independence foreces only gained the upper hand in among the texas revolutionaires after all other forces of rebbelion other that texas had been defeated, at which point fighting for a federalist Mexico clearly apeared to be a loser and a irrelavancy, with independence to only vialble option left to fight for.

	16-12-2001 07:00									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'd think you'd like the Alamo, seeing how it was the site where revolutionaries died before their imperial oppressors (ie, Texas rebellion again Mexican rule).

Not really. Maybe if they weren't being backed by another imperial power.

	16-12-2001 08:51									#40
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LL at KH and Imran.


So, Americans, what do you think about us spying on you?

We knew you're spying on us. As far as I know, the general assumption of the government is that all the communication systems are bugged.

Also, I talked briefly with a girl from AMAN (IMI - Israeli Military Intelligence - very similar in action to NSA, but part of the Military) and she appeared to know alot about Echelon.

So I'd imagine either we know alot, (as you do too), or we workt cooperatively, sharing information (what I hope for) (even though spying on you is much cooler ).

	16-12-2001 08:52									#41
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Siro, we're Americans. We remember the Alamo. Think about it.

*sits down and thinks *

* suddenly remembers it 6 minutes before 6 AM in Israel *

* continues surfing *

	16-12-2001 09:36									#42
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 now that you mentioned it. last week: 70 violations of greek airspace by some turkish planes. 40 greek F-16 chased them back to their side of the pond. turks must be getting uneasy about the euro army... expect more "attacks" when we shape the rules that guide it the way we want edit: by the way they remain... horrible neighboors. you don't violate anotehr country's airspace. HOW HARD IS IT TO GET IT THROUGH THEIR SKULLS?

Heh, I wonder how many air and sea space violations Greece commites against Turkey.

	17-12-2001 05:25									#43
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quote: Another part of the investigation has resulted in the detention and arrest of dozens of Israelis working at kiosks in American malls, where they had been selling toys called "Puzzlecar" and "Zoomcopter." Investigators suspected a front. Shortly after the New York Times and Washington Post reported the detentions of Israelis on immigration charges last month, the carts began vanishing.

Zoomcopter?
ZOOMCOPTER?!

There's a ****ing zoomcopter stand in the mall, outside the store where I work. The guys that run it are always there, day after day, always shouting out "zoomcopter, always come back" in an accent I can't place.

	17-12-2001 05:27									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kyle Heh, I wonder how many air and sea space violations Greece commites against Turkey.

try 0


your support for such a dictatorship appaules me.


you are this planet's disease.

	17-12-2001 05:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 try 0 your support for such a dictatorship appaules me. you are this planet's disease.

Come on now Paiktis. There's no need for that. You're going to make this worse than the vilest of ME threads if you keep that up.

	17-12-2001 06:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild Zoomcopter? ZOOMCOPTER?! There's a ****ing zoomcopter stand in the mall, outside the store where I work. The guys that run it are always there, day after day, always shouting out "zoomcopter, always come back" in an accent I can't place.

I'll bet you a fiver it's Israeli.

	17-12-2001 06:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 try 0 your support for such a dictatorship appaules me. you are this planet's disease.

Somehow I doubt that. If the rest of your country (or government at least) has the same amount of hatred you have, one would suspect it's the same cat and mouse game the US and Soviets played.

	17-12-2001 07:34									#48
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I must say, it saddens me that greeks and turks are enemies.

Israel is social to Turkey, being it's only friendly (and big and scary) neigbour. Also, they're far from being Fundamentalistic and infact outlawed an Islamic party just this year.

I'm awfully sorry that this hurts our relations with greece, which I imagine is partially why they keep liking the pals better. Also probably because they hate the US and we're their allies.

I do see that bad sides of turkey, but I think they can improve and will.

	17-12-2001 11:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov We knew you're spying on us. As far as I know, the general assumption of the government is that all the communication systems are bugged.

No way, Jose. first of all, you Israelis are DAMN good at counterintell, so we would be dedected, and your not so bad at encryption. Secondly, the Congressional "Israel Lobby" (i don't like that phrase) would leak the info on that in a second. Although assuming the com systems are bugged is a good way to go doing business, I think your enemies are in no way as good as intel and bugging as you are.

quote: So I'd imagine either we know alot, (as you do too), or we workt cooperatively, sharing information (what I hope for) (even though spying on you is much cooler ).

The Mossad is the worst sharer of info in the West. They just don't do it, not that I totally blame them. In a situation of virtually constant threats and warfare, sharing info makes the probability of leakage and damage take on exponential proportions. The only intel groups that activly share info is the USAUK alliance of all major English speaking nations (I.e. US, UK Aussies, NZ and Canada, even though some still speak Frenchie there, but nobodys perfect). The Mossad spies on the US, yes it's true. But its all part of the game. Heck, even the UK and Canada technically spy on us, not to mention help in Industrial Espionage.
My point is...............uh..................something about spying..I think. Anyways, how about that local sports team?

	18-12-2001 08:18									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov I must say, it saddens me that greeks and turks are enemies. Israel is social to Turkey, being it's only friendly (and big and scary) neigbour. Also, they're far from being Fundamentalistic and infact outlawed an Islamic party just this year. I'm awfully sorry that this hurts our relations with greece, which I imagine is partially why they keep liking the pals better. Also probably because they hate the US and we're their allies. I do see that bad sides of turkey, but I think they can improve and will.

I'm also sorry that Israel has to have that close relationship with Turkey (including a militay pact if I am not mistaken). But it is needs of survival that dictate policies and I'm sure the Israelis know that.

In the international chess board it all depends on what kind of relationship each has with Turkey. If US and Israel are allied to it then they are hostile to Greece. Simplistic and yet correct.

You are either with us or against us (reminds you of anyone? )

This also projects itself to ideology. If the main ideology of Turkey's biggest ally is free markets then by a spill-over effect that ideology also becomes disliked to Greece, especially when there was an alternative force (namely USSR).

Ii is an oxymoron but Greece and Israel can propably understand eachotehr much better than any other country (on the same ... block) since they are both faced with big and immideate threats to their existance. (be that imaginary or real).

Yet, they are on opposite "alliances" inside the same alliance

	18-12-2001 08:29									#51
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Funny, you think of Israel as being anti-Greece because it's pro-Turkey, I think of Greece as being pro-Arab because it's anti-Turkey (and therefore anti turkish ally Israel). But really, both being in NATO and you being in the EU, I doubt Turkey can threaten your existence in any way at all.

	18-12-2001 09:00									#52
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I sincerely hope you are right Natan. But Turkey has a habit of threatening war against Greece every time there is a difference of opinion or interests.

The last example of that is a couple of weeks ago when Ecevit said that if Cyprus enters the EU (it is scheduled for 2004) then Greece will regret it and it will cause unforseenable and unpleasant developments for Greece.

We have heard those threats so many times and about so many different subjects that on one hand we don't really pay attention to them anymore; but on the other hand no one guarantees us that some time Turkey will not back its threats with action.

And if that time comes, no one will help Greece. Not the EU (since it has no army yet and maybe it will never have) not the US (because Turkey is a far more valuable ally to it) and maybe not any one else.

A politician of Greece once said that we are an "Anadelphon Ethnos", that means a nation without "brothers", without allies.

I am afraid he was right. And havinga neighboor 6 times bigger than you who has it very easy to threaten you with war whenever differences accure tends to put one on high alert, especially when you have no "brothers"

	18-12-2001 12:13									#53
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You know what can be really great?

Israel&Turkey vs Greece. We'll beat the **** out of you.

And then Turkey will get Greece and we will get Cyprus.

Last edited by Eli on 18-12-2001 at 12:21

	18-12-2001 15:36									#54
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That's the day I'm signing up in the Greek army.

	18-12-2001 20:30									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Independence foreces only gained the upper hand in among the texas revolutionaires after all other forces of rebbelion other that texas had been defeated, at which point fighting for a federalist Mexico clearly apeared to be a loser and a irrelavancy, with independence to only vialble option left to fight for.

I thought you boys captured Santy Annie. Couldn't y'all have just shot him and restored the Mexican Republic? Course, that would have put the cabash on your plans to extend slavery, but still.

	18-12-2001 21:30									#56
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Santa Ana and his self saving agreements with his Texian captors was unceremoniously repudiated by the governement he had left in Mexico city, which remained centralist, they were quite happy to retain power for themselves.

	19-12-2001 03:33									#57
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While we're on the subject of Israelis and terrorism, the leader of the Jewish Defense League was recently arrested and charged with planning to bomb a mosque. Come on guys, we're supposed to be friends. Can you imagine the stink that would have ensued if he had succeeded?

	19-12-2001 04:17									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove While we're on the subject of Israelis and terrorism, the leader of the Jewish Defense League was recently arrested and charged with planning to bomb a mosque. Come on guys, we're supposed to be friends. Can you imagine the stink that would have ensued if he had succeeded?

Um, the JDL is an American movement, and I don't think you can ask Israel to be responsible for the actions of all Jews regardless of citizenship - although Israel did ban the Israeli movement Kach, founded by the same guy as the JDL.

Paiktis: Yeah, but even in a war, Turkey doesn't plan to conquer and occupy all of greece. Maybe Cyprus and a few agean islands.

	19-12-2001 07:06									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove While we're on the subject of Israelis and terrorism, the leader of the Jewish Defense League was recently arrested and charged with planning to bomb a mosque. Come on guys, we're supposed to be friends. Can you imagine the stink that would have ensued if he had succeeded?

While we're on the subject of terrorism, look at Timothy McVeigh. How many people on this forum are white Americans? Would they be responsible if he succeeded? He's also (I assume) of Christian background. Is the Vatican committing an act of terrorsim here?