14-12-2001 17:16									#1
	Has Anyone Been Capturing and Keeping Cities? Get a bigger avatar today!

So here's how my current game worked itself out... I have a continent, that I fought long and hard to have by myself... after centuries of cultural and scientific domination, I decide to destroy the rest of the world... only... I realize I have far too many cities as it is...

So I blitzkrieg with like 100 modern armors... and well... I keep the cities, which are complete wastes of time. They're corrupted to one shield... three of them converted back (killing my six or seven tanks stationed there...how peasant rabble can overcome a tank brigade is beyond me).

So my question is... is it really worth keeping these cities?

I started burning all of them to ground... which, as it turns out, is sooooo much more gratifying.

	14-12-2001 17:20									#2
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it depends how you play
I "use" the cities when I'm comunism, they won't revert back then. It may be lame but it's a solution for this corruption rate.
If I'm democrazy then I raze the cities that are not usefull, but I keep the ones where are resource in the city radius. I also try to get a high culture of my own in the city then to keep them stay with me.

You can also kill the civ. when you have a lot of cities of him, easier to keep them

	14-12-2001 17:42									#3
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The problem with razing can be that the AI will settle new cities there. No problem if it is a civ you are at war with, but a pain in the ass if it is a civ you have peace with....

So I keep them usually, but don't do that much with them, just keep them fot the territory!

	14-12-2001 17:51									#4
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quote: So my question is... is it really worth keeping these cities?

Late in the game, I'd say 'no'. It makes a lot more sense to either just raze them or raze them and quickly build a new city in the same place.

If you really want to keep it (e.g. it has a Wonder) then bombard it down to a manageable size (e.g. 3 or 4) and/or starve it for a bit while putting a decent sized garrison in place.

At the beginning of game, I think it makes more sense to keep cities as the boost can be quite large. Also, I think other Civs frown upon razing cities and so it can make diplomatic relations a bit harder if all you do is raze.

If you are going to wipe out your nearest neighbour(s) early on then I normally keep cities I win because they're small and don't revert too easily but more importantly also provide all important forward bases to put the boot in some more on your enemy. If you want to take a more peaceful approach then you can also use them to build up culture bombs and gain control of even more enemy cities. This only tends to work well quite early on though (otherwise the enemy cities are getting too large and this can then work against you).

	14-12-2001 17:53									#5
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It is possible to keep the cities if you want them (like for a dominance victory or to obtain a wonder) but on the whole unless I intend to sack the enemy capital every turn until their nation is completely wiped out I prefer to destroy their cities and place my own settlers instead. This conveniently means that you will never need to pay for your workers because you have a whole army of foreign nationals to do terrain improvements for you.

	14-12-2001 20:25									#6
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I always keep cities - as was mentioned, razing them just makes fertile ground for the AI ICS...

What's the point in conquering the earth, turn it into pasture?

Venger

	14-12-2001 20:37									#7
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I've been struggling with the reversion problem too, especially as the AI seems to wipe out all the happiness/cultural improvements before you take a city.

I think I'm going to try to turn up on enemy continents with loads of settlers of my nationality in my next game and add them to the city population after I take it. Hopefully this will reduce the probability of reversion. I think that I'll also need cash (or units I can convert into shileds) to make sure that I can quickly build improvements. The most important one for the first city you take on a new continent is the Harbour I think so that all your own civilzation's happiness making luxuries and resources can influence the population.

	14-12-2001 20:41									#8
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I keep them. Its hard enough to keep the 'friendly' settlers out as it is when the cultural boundries shrink. Bloody real estate salesmen are everywhere.

	14-12-2001 20:49									#9
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My approach has been to keep cities that have Wonders, and perhaps a couple others sprinkled in, but raze most of them and quickly build my own. My experience has been that my cities grow to the same size as the retained cities quickly, and are much more manageable. The retained cities have converted at about a 50% rate, despite my civilization's overwhelming cultural dominance. I guess the many years of "being Aztec" takes precedence in the new CIV 3 paradigm.

	14-12-2001 21:05									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here's what I've found in the manual - when you absorb/conquer the city, it's citizens (the ones that keep their nationality) will be upset everytime you are at war with their original civ. I've found it to be true 100%. This totally sucks if you're planning on taking over the whole civ - the first cities you conquer are in danger of reverting back until you conquer the last cities. I've found the only true way to combat this - make all citizens in the acquired city happy by hiring entertainers. If that leads to starvation - even better, less citizens to worry about But do try to finish your war as soon as possible. If the war starts, I usually try to finish off the civ completly. (I'm yet to play on the huge map though)

	14-12-2001 21:10									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Peets it depends how you play I "use" the cities when I'm comunism, they won't revert back then. It may be lame but it's a solution for this corruption rate.

Hmm, cities revert back even under Communism. It happened in my recent game on several occasions. Darn Greeks and their baklavah ... (no offense intended)

	14-12-2001 21:48									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Daveraver So I blitzkrieg with like 100 modern armors... and well... I keep the cities, which are complete wastes of time. They're corrupted to one shield... three of them converted back (killing my six or seven tanks stationed there...how peasant rabble can overcome a tank brigade is beyond me).

Quote from the game Civilopedia:
"Resisters can be quelled by ending the war or garrison strong military units in the city - the more the better".

In short: after your blietzkrieg-campaign of 4-5 cities, you must end the war. As long as the war continues without a peace-treaty, quelling those resistors is much more difficult. You can always brake the peace later - use the truce-period effectivelly by switching city-merging/city-reducing settlers and workers between founded and conquered cities.

A MIXED conquered city population is much more manageable during resumed wars against old enemys.

If you STILL have problems, then open your Civilization III map and doubleclick the "Civ3mod" icon; Then click the Culture-tab. There you guys can tweak back and forth how big the conquered Civ resistance-chance should be regardless what cultural opinions neighbor Civs have of you. The default figures is:

Conquered citizens is distantful of your culture = Initial resistance-chance 90%. Continued = 80%.
Conquered citizens is dissmissive of your culture = Initial resistance-chance 80%. Continued = 70%.
Conquered citizens is unimpressed by your culture = Initial resistance-chance 70%. Continued = 60%.
Conquered citizens is impressed by your culture = Initial resistance-chance 60%. Continued = 50%.
Conquered citizens is admirers of your culture = Initial resistance-chance 50%. Continued = 40%.
Conquered citizens is in awe of your culture = Initial resistance-chance 40%. Continued = 30%.

Hell, you can even tweak the RATIO for each of above culture opinions - and add new ones, as well. Check it out.

Just remember: The easier you make it to oppress/assimilate conquered AI-cities, the easier it is for the AI-invader to oppress/assimilate your cities as well. Its a double-edged sword, you know.

Finally, I remembered one Firaxian saying something about 1 martial law-opressing combat-unit for each conquered foreign citizen. I dont know if this thumb of rule still applies with that new patch, and if it does so regardless difficulty-level. Anyway, with the changes made under that CivMod-editor Culture-tab, at least the probabilities, and the duration of it all, can be made much shorter, if one prefers that.

I havent tried it out myself, but its riskfree to do so, since one can always choose the editor-menu Rules -> Restore default Rules if something goes horribly wrong. Or back up the CivMod file.

	14-12-2001 21:49									#13
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They won't revert back when you use Communism to rush build something that'll use up every population point but 1, then grow it back to a decent size with your people. Or better yet, rush a temple, cathedral and library. You'll be at a 100 culture for the second border expansion in no time.

I usually raze unless its got a needed Wonder. Then I use all of my original workers to build up population quickly, and use the foreign workers for terraforming.

	14-12-2001 21:52									#14
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I keep only the smaller cities (6 or smaller). Big ones... I just raze them and build a new city there. It's would be too disappointing to lose it. Incidentally, I've yet to have any of my captured cities revert to their former civ.

	14-12-2001 21:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Mokael the first cities you conquer are in danger of reverting back until you conquer the last cities. I've found the only true way to combat this - make all citizens in the acquired city happy by hiring entertainers

I have a lot of success keeping cities by having huge labor gangs fast-building roads right behind the spearheads of my offensive. When I capture a city, I am often able to connect it to the rest of my empire the same turn.

The immediate infusion of luxuries seems to help convince the conquered population to accept the inevitable.

	14-12-2001 22:06									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Antonin I have a lot of success keeping cities by having huge labor gangs fast-building roads right behind the spearheads of my offensive. When I capture a city, I am often able to connect it to the rest of my empire the same turn. The immediate infusion of luxuries seems to help convince the conquered population to accept the inevitable.

Unless I'm being thick (very possible) or have missed it in the manual (less likely), this only works if you already have cities on the same continent. I haven't yet figured how to get workers into ships to send them overseas. To connect a city on a new continent you need to build a harbour fast, but without workers in ships you have a really hard time getting new workers fast when there are so many other things the cities need to keep them happy after the AI has wiped them out before you conquesr them.

	14-12-2001 22:24									#17
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I never ever raze a city because I am afriend of all humanity and want to save all these little miserable human beings from the cruel oppression of French and Germans

Seriously speaking, I think that razing a city should cause a fallback in culture, for some 5000 points per razed city.

I hate razing.

	14-12-2001 22:53									#18
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I almost allways keep the cities bc then I can use all roads & RR to move faster into their territory.

the only time I raze is if its a worthless city that overlaps the radius of a good city.

	14-12-2001 23:04									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Just remebered another tactic I use sometime - use workers captured from other civs (if their host civs has been destroyed, that is) to "disolve" the captured cities. Especially good for Industrial civs, since all captured workers are slower anyhow.

	14-12-2001 23:36									#20
	Here's what I do.... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Mokael Hmm, cities revert back even under Communism. It happened in my recent game on several occasions.

In my current game, playing under Communism, the following strat has yet to see a city flip:

1. Do not take city unless under size 6. Bombard if necessary.
2. Move all populance to entertainers. As resistors in city are quelled, convert them to entertainer. Some of the pop may starve, thats ok.
3. When all resistors are quelled, pop rush temple.

By the time it's all over, the city size will be about 1 or 2.

I'm playing Persians. No flips in current campain against Babylonians. Have taken 10 cities so far.

	15-12-2001 02:03									#21
	Conquering cities Put an end to popups!

What is the point in razing a city and replacing it with one of your own because of the the corruption factor? Whether you keep the city or replace it with your own if the city is any fair distance from your capital you will be limited to one shield production anyways because of corruption and waste.
The corruption and waste factor at its current scale in the game ruin the game.
Corruption and waste has be severely toned down by Firaxis to make this a viable and enjoyable empire building game.

	15-12-2001 02:21									#22
	yes they do revert under commie Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

"I "use" the cities when I'm comunism, they won't revert back then. It may be lame but it's a solution for this corruption rate.
"

I am a commie and know that captured cities will revert back.
however there are things you can do to make this a remote possibility.

1) Blast the city to under 10 before you take it
2) send in 2*(+2) the units as resistors
3) disband enough to build a temple right away
4)make 2 more entertainers than govenor would
5) take or raze a couple cities around to throw back enemy borders.
6) make peace --not really an option now with the patch (which is good)

if you do all of these the city will never revert on third turn.

if u scratch 3 and 4...its almost never.

if you leave a city large..you can still do this but you can never be really sure what will happen on third turn. Most times you will be safe.

edit: all that said..it would still be nice if they ameliorated the reversion factor.

	15-12-2001 03:10									#23
	Re: Conquering cities Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by JohnHK Corruption and waste has be severely toned down by Firaxis to make this a viable and enjoyable empire building game.

That is only in your opinion. I have no problem with having an additional difficulty in the game. I like a bit more of a challenge. Civ 2 was far too easy; Civ 3 seems about right (to me).

Incidentally, CTP had a similar expansion limiter.

On the original subject: If I want to wipe out a particular Civ, I tend to give the cities that I don't want to a weak ally (one with which I have a right of passage agreement). Then I can blitzkreig my way around with full access to the road and rail network.

Quite often, the cities that I gave away become culturally assimilated into my civ (but usually after quite a long time).