14-12-2001 22:23									#1
	Courthouses and Police Stations... when and why Increase the size of your Attachments

Since the patch there have been continued complaints about the corruption level, including the complaint that the corruption-reducing effects of the police station are too weak to be of concern. I'll explain why these complaints are arising, and why the new game mechanics have a definite implication for your behavior as a Democracy. Someone else may have noted this already, but I can't seem to find it.

"Reduces Corruption" -- This option, when checked in the editor for a given building, gives that building the ability to reduce corruption to 66% of it's level *when the building is built*. This implies a law of diminishing marginal returns. The first building reduces your corruption by 33%. The second corruption reducing building reduces corruption to 44% of its initial level, thus reducing overall corruption by 56% instead of the (perhaps expected) 66%. If you add this characteristic to a third building, constructing it reduces corruption to 29% of the initial level, instead of taking it down to zero.

Implications

1) Once you have obtained communism, the Police Station becomes your favorite building in a Democracy. In new cities, it achieves the same effect as building the Courthouse, with the added bonus of suppressing war-weariness. Therefore, build PS early, courthouse late.

2) The law of diminishing marginal returns implies that in your older cities, particularly if you have a high science percentage, your courthouse may no longer pay for itself once you build the police station. Since one corruption-reducing building cuts corruption by 1/3, and the second only cuts it by a further 22%, the courthouse may not pay for its own upkeep, particularly if these older cities are close to your capital. In this situation, it is probably a good idea to sell your courthouses once you have built police stations. It gives you extra cash and removes a drain on your pocketbook.

3) If after courthouse your waste is 3-6 shields, you will not see a significant improvement in waste after building a Police Station. Again, sell your courthouse once you've built the Police Station.

Next Patch

Firaxians, I agree that the law of marginal returns should apply in the case of corruption-reducing buildings. However, I believe that they should have a greater effect. Corruption reduction should be a 50% adjustment to corruption. This makes the corruption scale 50%-25% as opposed to the present 66%-44%. I believe this would make corruption more manageable without the need to deeply tweak the present engine (with which some gamers are quite satisfied).

That's all.

EDIT: I should note that I checked this out in a chieftain game performed expressly for this experiment, on a huge map, archipelago, 5 cities on a remote island included for long-distance data, 10 cities near and 10 cities far on large island for short-distance data.

Last edited by Bad Ax on 14-12-2001 at 22:41

	15-12-2001 06:33									#2
	Got spare money?

Thats an interesting point about courthouses becoming useless if they're close to a palace.. maybe they should give happiness under democracy like they did in Civ2.. or perhaps even in Communism when I understand corruption is much reduced.

Courthouses do still make it harder for enemies to use Propoganda on them which make them useful even with a Police Station.

Anyway, if someone bombs your city its nice to have 2 anti corruption buildings in case one gets destroyed

	15-12-2001 15:26									#3
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Bad Ax "Reduces Corruption" -- This option, when checked in the editor for a given building, gives that building the ability to reduce corruption to 66% of it's level *when the building is built*. This implies a law of diminishing marginal returns. The first building reduces your corruption by 33%. The second corruption reducing building reduces corruption to 44% of its initial level, thus reducing overall corruption by 56% instead of the (perhaps expected) 66%.

Above seems OK to me. I think they downtuned corruption just about right with the latest patch, and they shouldnt go any further. Remember that Courthouses reduces both shield- and trade-corruption, and this combined reduction makes this city-improvement both worthwhile and attractive - at least in cities far away from the Capitol and the city who built the Forbidden city-wonder.

quote: If you add this characteristic to a third building, constructing it reduces corruption to 29% of the initial level, instead of taking it down to zero.

If you add this characteristic to a third, or even a fourth building - and on top of that; add it to early-available buildings; then the whole concept of corruption becomes more or less impotent and totally meaningless.

quote: Firaxians, I agree that the law of marginal returns should apply in the case of corruption-reducing buildings. However, I believe that they should have a greater effect. Corruption reduction should be a 50% adjustment to corruption. This makes the corruption scale 50%-25% as opposed to the present 66%-44%.

With above suggestion added the concept of corruption would become even MORE meaningless. They could just as well throw the whole idea of corruption out the window.

	15-12-2001 20:49									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Ralf With above suggestion added the concept of corruption would become even MORE meaningless. They could just as well throw the whole idea of corruption out the window.

I strongly disagree. a 50%-25% scalar system still allows for plenty of corruption in faraway cities, especially those that are over the "ideal" limit. As it stands at present, I can be in a democracy with a large number of cities on a huge map, playing a commercial civ, and see 13/14 shields and 18/20 commerce go straight to corruption. Corruption should be a problem at the edges of the empire, but it shouldn't be absolutely fatal. What's worse is that the new palace movement restriction makes it impossible to shift your capital in the late game to correct for problematic corruption levels.

Out of curiousity, what size map do you play on?