15-12-2001 22:32									#1
	Observations on long response time between turns. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm playing civ3 on a 450 MHz AMD K2 with 128 megs of RAM. I just love civ3 (now the editor - that's another matter) and I play the game as much as I can. I am, however, really tired of waiting up to 10 minutes between turns (note that I have all AI moves turned off), so I got to thinking why it was so.

We have previously discussed in these forums, that perhaps the calculation of the trade network was a possible cause for the long delays. I now submit to you that the sheer number of units that the AI controls is by far a greater factor in this than any trade network calculations.

The way I discovered this was by using Gramphos copy tool (see files forum for a thread on this tool), or rather the built in save game editor. In one game I was getting my butt seriously kicked by the Americans, and since I was enjoying this particular game a lot, I decided to relieve ole Abe of some of his units. So that's what I did. I must have cropped out app. 100 units. Offensive ones, mind you. The ones that the AI moves around the map. And BANG...the wait between turns was reduced by some 50%. So now I crop AI units regularly: Frigates, Battleships, Cavalry - you name it.

Now, I know that this is cheating, and that most of you are going to cry out that I am ruining the fun for myself. But look at it this way: Before discovering this, I could play maybe 20 turns in an entire day of playing - now I can play twice that, or maybe more. And since I am a VERY peaceful player (I almost never wage wars, and when I do, I don't crop anymore), I figure that whether Mao, Hammurabi and Abe has 10 battleships or 100 really doesn't matter, when the only wars they fight are against each other.

Anyway: Firaxis...a question for you: Is it possible that you could look into this for the next patch. The number of units that the AI has to move clearly makes for long waits in the middle and endgame. This is with all AI moves turned off in preferences, so graphics are not an issue here.

Asmodean

	15-12-2001 23:10									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Looks like youre onto something here. I think the problem is that the AI seems to recalculate what to do with each unit for every square it moves. If it had the ability to plan farther ahead and use the "goto" command to give a unit orders for several turns I think that might help a lot.

I still think trade is a big part of the problem too, and maybe the trade routes/resource access is being recalculated too often? It seems to me that they are calculated all over with each nations turn, even though it shouldnt matter a lot whether I have iron access during the other nations turns.

	16-12-2001 00:36									#3
	Tired of ads?

Yeah, exp. I still think trade network calculation is a big part of it. Have you noticed that sometimes, when you build a certain piece of road, or found a new city, the game freezes up for up to three minutes?

But I now think that the problem is two-pronged. In the game that I mentioned in the above thread, there were about 1900 units in mid industrial age, and more than 2100 in early modern.

Would be nice with a response from Firaxis. Is this really an issue, or are we just ranting??

BTW: These are post-patch observations.

Asmodean

	18-12-2001 00:16									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just bumping this one, so that Firaxis can get a chance to see it, now that the weekend is over.

Asmodean

	18-12-2001 01:42									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i turned off 'watch enemy moves' and 'watch friendly moves'.. that really made my game go faster.

	18-12-2001 02:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What size maps are we talking about here?

	18-12-2001 03:52									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It's my impression that the worst offender is the "patrolling" unit. A pile of knights will each patrol the same circular path of roads, eating up a lot of time totally senselessly. Ditto for ships.

	18-12-2001 04:11									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Play small or tiny maps, 16 civs. They are inherently superior to all other map sizes, regardless of anyone else's [wrong] oppinion.

I rule!

	19-12-2001 12:38									#9
	Got spare money?

I always play my games on huge maps - 10 opponents. Leaves a lot of room to expand on.

Asmodean