16-12-2001 02:05									#1
	Does anyone use espionage with great success? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Seems like the spy options don't have a high chance of success. Even "plant spy" only works maybe half the time in a democracy. This is the most basic function, and if it screws up, they're pissed. Most missions are too expensive to justify, esp. with the seemingly low rate of success.

I use investigate city sometimes to plan an attack. I can look at other civs military on F3 screen if I have a spy with them.

I changed the diplo/spy experience levels in the editor.
Changed them from regular to vet. for Republic & Demo.
And from vet. to elite for communism. I haven't tried these settings.

Is the chance of success in the editor somewhere or is it hardcoded for each experience level?

	16-12-2001 14:26									#2
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I`ve never been able to successfully plant a spy yet. Though I have tried numerous times.
Only good thing is I`ve never seen the AI attempt to spy on me......but there again, how would I know if they were succesful hehe.

The steal Tech option is way to over-priced imho, granted it shouldn`t be easy or cheap, but I never even consider it nowadays due to the price involved.

The whole espionage thing needs an overhaul IMHO, the only thing I use is the investigate city command when planning an invasion. The rest just isn`t worth bothering about.

Cya

--
Foxglove
--

	16-12-2001 18:31									#3
	Tired of ads?

I have successfully recvd information about all of one countries military units. This was an exceptional help when i invaded him that turn. I was able to position my infantry and mech infantry between the computers troops and the cities i had just captured.

	16-12-2001 19:33									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I only ever use spies to gain information on what units an enemy civilization has (by planting a spy and just keeping the spy there).
Everything else is just too costly and ineffective to be of use.

	16-12-2001 19:43									#5
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I like spies. For a few gold you get a everlasting report on civ's army strength, ability to investigate cities while at war, propeganda against republic/communism (try it on recently conquered cities ) and enemy plans. You do need a lot of cash, but this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

	16-12-2001 21:16									#6
	Propaganda is useful.. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When I declare war to expand my empire I often lure my ally in the same continent to military alliance. Then we are both taking those enemy cities.

When my ally has captured a city then I'll try a sneaky trick: PROPAGANDA! The probability of the success is quite high in those occasions. Usually in the end I have all the captured cities and my ally has gained nothing at all..

	17-12-2001 14:58									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I used espionage once for military unit locations in order to use my nukes properly. It's so expensive though I normally can't afford to use it until I'm at the point were it doesn't matter. It could make the difference if you were in a close game I suppose.

	17-12-2001 23:07									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I succeeded to plant spies on only couple of occassions:
1) When my Gov was Communism. Was able to plant a spy in every civ
2) When I'm at war with a civ

As for options - I only steal plans (works almost every time, even the "immediate" option), and do the Propoganda as well (worked only couple of times so far)

	18-12-2001 06:26									#9
	planting is all you need Support Apolyton

All you really need is to plant 1 spy in as many civilizations as you can. This seems to work a bit better than 50% of the time for me.
Once you have a spy in place, you can look ar the entire order of battle for that civ with 100%. This is all the info I need. None of the other spy functions have even close to that success rate. This tells me all I need to know to
1) Attack and win a war against this AI civ.
2) Know how large a force it will take to prevent this AI civ from trying to attack me or extort things from me.

	18-12-2001 06:38									#10
	Tired of ads?

I'm just glad that there aren't those annoying "dips" in their stupid cummerbun and top hat trying to constantly steal techs. That was one aspect that ticked me off in 1 and 2. I would be afraid to fortify units outside of cities because the dip would come along

"Hey you great big rifle division! You want 500 bucks to join our crappy backwards land?"

"Duuuuuhhh suuuurree! Can we stil tend the wabbits? Can we Dip Can we???!"

Also it's good that a Middle Age civ can't use a tech (or even ASK for it) until they have the prereqs!

Sorry about that got a tad off target there

	18-12-2001 06:56									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Espionage costs so much, there are not many situations justifying its use, so I save my gold for those critical times when all other methods fail, and nothing but espionage is left to get the tech, information, or other result that I have an immediate need for. The price of a mission is often enough to reduce my sense of urgency and reconsider its use.

	18-12-2001 08:50									#12
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by justjake73 I'm just glad that there aren't those annoying "dips" in their stupid cummerbun and top hat trying to constantly steal techs. That was one aspect that ticked me off in 1 and 2. I would be afraid to fortify units outside of cities because the dip would come along

In Civ2 they didn't need a dip, any unit could bribe you. Thank god they got rid of that part!

I haven't even bothered to use espionage yet, i should probly try it sometime....

	18-12-2001 08:52									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmmm... I use it primarily to start wars. If I have managed to annoy my neighbours through various misdemeanours, getting caught sabotaging their production is often enough to get them angry enough to declare war on me, allowing me to mercilessly eradicate them without my democracy collapsing.

	18-12-2001 17:25									#14
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I only use them to see how big and how advanced their troops are. Other things are expensive but also mostly ineffective, and that is worse. I don't mind paying a lot of money, but paying it for nothing in return is pissing me off.....

Hehe, other civs say I'm known as a tough negotiator and a merchant....

	19-12-2001 01:16									#15
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I agree major. The espionage either needs to be cheaper or have a higher rate of success. I can't spend 5000 gold to try steal tech and have it not work.

	19-12-2001 01:42									#16
	buying the enemy Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In Civ2, I used to buy entire empires (with the exception of the capital). The diplomat was the most feared unit in the game.

	19-12-2001 02:45									#17
	Enemy Tactics Full PM-box? Change here!

I actually had the opposite problem - every tech I researched the Japanese stole immediately (i.e. they had it the same turn when I tried to sell it to them immediately. Exception: When I built the TOE, which only gave me 2 advances for some reason, they only got 1 of them.)
Anyway - I knew they a spy because of this but I had absolutely no success in unmasking their spy ; in testing the limits of this, I ran through 6k in gold with no luck despite trying the various low-high chances.

I eventually had to take out the city where they had their Intelligence Agency. That stopped them (I think - or the war drained their coffers to the point where they couldn't do it any more.)