16-12-2001 18:34									#1
	Over Rated big time! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I laugh really hard whenever the web site is updated or I see a magazine or game show give 9.0 and higher to Civ 3. Maybe even game of the year it is just so ridiculous that is funny. At least in my opinion anyone who has played a turned based civ style game will have issues with the game. Not to mention the horrible bug ridden code. The patch comes out and the patch actually makes the game more unstable. Firaxis says it is our fault for our expectations when we complain of problems. Bugs are big problems with the game where things are broke. Other MAJOR issues are the game play. Not only is the military totally unbalanced the game is not quite working in all areas.
I am convinced that none of these people who are rating the game high have really played a full game on a large map. Nor do I think any one who is considered a empire builder would like the game play very well. The game has potential but should have not been released until first quarter of 2002 they know it too.
I am a BIG fan of the series. I love all GOOD turn based games. I am hoping that they will wake up and fix the problems. Civ 3 looks, smells and tastes like a bad version of Call To Power. Currently the game deserves a rating of no more then a 6.5 - 7.0 at most. My opinion anyways!

Desert Dog

	16-12-2001 19:24									#2
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Thanks?

	16-12-2001 20:40									#3
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Personally I never purchase a game based on a review I read in a magazine. I prefer TBG to all other genres, and I have no major issues with this game. I’m currently playing on the largest map possible, each turn takes ½ hour to complete and I’m having a blast.

I say all that to make this point, when you generalize, even if it is “IMHO”, you run the risk of making inaccurate comments like [quote] “At least in my opinion anyone who has played a turned based civ style game will have issues with the game. [quote]

I understand there are some folks who are disappointed in this game. I guess I’m part of the crowd that enjoys Cic3 as it stands now. Earlier this year I watched as people bitterly complained about another highly anticipated game that was released. With each patch that was issued, more and more people seemed to complain. After 4 patches, it barely resembled the original game and had become an inferior product IMHO.

BTW, I agree with the spirit of your argument about gaming mags in general in regards to ANY review they give.

	16-12-2001 21:52									#4
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Generally im happy with the game. One issue they must fix is the unbalanced military units. I hope they do that

	16-12-2001 22:27									#5
	PLEASE! Inflate your Upload Space

Look if your going try and flame me do a good job! The game is loaded with serious bugs. I know of NO ONE who is having a good time. (accept for your couple of posts) I have had many good games going and they crash or some other dumb ass stuff will happen.
The patch made things much worse. I just want a game that I paid $70.00 to work properly. It SHOULD NOT be called Civ 3 as I said before it likes and smells more like CTP3. I am playing now with Korns Biltz mod finally having a good game that is not crashing. Funny how a mod fixes the game better then the programmers!
Here is the thing I want this game to be good I was playing civ 2 and Alpha Centauri:Alien Crossfire for way to long. If the bugs and unbalanced issues are ironed out the game would be good. But in its current form it is over rated BIG TIME!

Desert Dog

	16-12-2001 22:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm pretty happy with the game as well. One thing I have to say is that my game hasn't crashed ONCE, pre-patch or after. It seems to be perfectly stable IMO. That isn't to say nothing is wrong with it, but stability for me is not an issue.

	16-12-2001 22:47									#7
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So far so good for me as well opague. No crashes at all

	17-12-2001 00:02									#8
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Same here. I havent had one single crash och freeze-up, since I started to play this game. I look upon this game as an raw diamond. It needs some polishing, minor additions & alterations back and forth, and later; a nice meaty commercial expansion-package with full scenario- and MP-support, amongst other goodies.

But its still a diamond. How you even can begin to compare this game with the CTP-series, completely baffles me.

Last edited by Ralf on 17-12-2001 at 01:32

	17-12-2001 00:56									#9
	Re: PLEASE! Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Desert Dog Look if your going try and flame me do a good job! The game is loaded with serious bugs. I know of NO ONE who is having a good time. (accept for your couple of posts) I have had many good games going and they crash or some other dumb ass stuff will happen.

A:learn how to spell (it's except, not accept) B: Learn that many people have oppinions THAT AREN'T THE EXACT SAME AS YOURS!!! The game hasn't crashed once for me BTW...

quote: The patch made things much worse. I just want a game that I paid $70.00 to work properly. It SHOULD NOT be called Civ 3 as I said before it likes and smells more like CTP3. I am playing now with Korns Biltz mod finally having a good game that is not crashing. Funny how a mod fixes the game better then the programmers!

Thank god the weekend is almost over, you need to get to you english class ASAP Again I am having NO problems with the game, also I can tell your lieing about your game crashing because mods dont fix a games internal code, they just mess with game rules, so you shot yourself in the foot right there.

quote: Here is the thing I want this game to be good I was playing civ 2 and Alpha Centauri:Alien Crossfire for way to long. If the bugs and unbalanced issues are ironed out the game would be good. But in its current form it is over rated BIG TIME!

Its not over rated, its just that your one of those little wierdos who cant stand that the game isn't 100% based around your ideas, and because of that you hate everyone who finds joy in playing it. By the way, just because a game crashes for you dosen't mean its unbalenced.

you need to relise your not the center of the universe, and that very few people care what you think. Now, GET A LIFE

	17-12-2001 01:44									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ralf Same here. I havent had one single crash or freeze-up, since I started to play this game.

Same with me.

quote: I look upon this game as an raw diamond. It needs some polishing, minor additions & alterations back and forth,

Same with me.

quote: and later; a nice meaty commercial expansion-package with full scenario- and MP-support, amongst other goodies.

Same with me

quote: But its still a diamond. How you even can begin to compare this game with the CTP-series, completely baffles me.

Huh? You weren't talking about the CtP series?

	17-12-2001 01:49									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't think like Desert Dog, I like this game so I play it.
I suggest Desert Dog finds a new game

Or you can have fun here

	17-12-2001 02:10									#12
	Re: Re: PLEASE! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by splangy A:learn how to spell (it's except, not accept) B: Learn that many people have oppinions THAT AREN'T THE EXACT SAME AS YOURS!!! The game hasn't crashed once for me BTW... Thank god the weekend is almost over, you need to get to you english class ASAP Again I am having NO problems with the game, also I can tell your lieing about your game crashing because mods dont fix a games internal code, they just mess with game rules, so you shot yourself in the foot right there. Its not over rated, its just that your one of those little wierdos who cant stand that the game isn't 100% based around your ideas, and because of that you hate everyone who finds joy in playing it. By the way, just because a game crashes for you dosen't mean its unbalenced. you need to relise your not the center of the universe, and that very few people care what you think. Now, GET A LIFE

Maybe YOU should learn how to spell as well. While you are at it, grammar and punctuation would be nice.

quote: Originally posted by splangy B: Learn that many people have oppinions THAT AREN'T THE EXACT SAME AS YOURS!!! The game hasn't crashed once for me BTW...

It's opinion, not oppinion

quote: Originally posted by splangy Thank god the weekend is almost over, you need to get to you english class ASAP

I hope you will be sitting beside him and taking notes.....it should have read "you need to get to YOUR english class".

quote: Originally posted by splangy Again I am having NO problems with the game, also I can tell your lieing about your game crashing because mods dont fix a games internal code, they just mess with game rules, so you shot yourself in the foot right there

Lot of nice juicy ones there! First, it is spelled LYING, not lieing. There is no such word. Secondly, dont is not a word either. Don't is what you were after I think. Thirdly, since the internal code you refer to belongs to the game, you should have spelled "games" game's....as it is now, you make games a plural.

As for shooting himself in the foot, I guess you must have shot him through YOUR foot.

quote: Originally posted by splangy Its not over rated, its just that your one of those little wierdos who cant stand that the game isn't 100% based around your ideas, and because of that you hate everyone who finds joy in playing it. By the way, just because a game crashes for you dosen't mean its unbalenced.

Nice ones here too. Its should read It's or It is. And in the phrase "just that your one of those", your here refers to the poster, therefore it should have been you're or you are. Unbalenced? I usually spell it unbalanced. And how are you linking unbalanced with the game crashing. The original poster was making two different points there, and you seem to have gotten them confused.

quote: Originally posted by splangy you need to relise your not the center of the universe, and that very few people care what you think.

Again, I usually spell it realize, not relise. Please note that you have AGAIN made the incorrect use of the wrong YOUR. It should have been you're or you are.

Please, I hope that you are taking lessons yourself. I'd hate to have to correct you all over again.

Next time, don't put someone down about their ability to write please. They may not be native english speaking people. Read their opinion and comment on that only. Or do YOU enjoy having your improper spelling and grammar exposed for the world to see?

Cavalier

	17-12-2001 02:31									#13
	Re: Re: PLEASE! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by splangy ...A:learn how to spell... ...you need to get to you english class ASAP...

Don't you just love people who criticize others while making the same mistakes? If you are going to act smart and pick on someone’s English, then maybe you should make sure that your writing skills are perfect...

"oppinions" only has one p
"english" should be capitalized
"lieing" is spelt "lying"
"dont" should be don't
"dosen't" is spelt "doesn't"
"unbalenced" is spelt "unbalanced"
"relise" is spelt "realize"

Hey EVERYONE makes mistakes - so stop picking on this guys errors when you seem to have difficulty yourself...

	17-12-2001 02:44									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I agree that the game isn't really as good as many of the reviews would have you believe. However, I don't put much stock in game reviewers anyway because I think many of them are bought off (i.e. if you diss one of our games we'll never send you another to preview again and we won't advertise on your site/magazine).

That said, I do think the game is pretty good. It has issues, but it is generally bug free (it has never crashed on me). Compare Civ3 to Ultima 9 or Pool of Radiance in this regard (shudder).

I think the big problem is many people, naturally, compare it to civ2. This game is certainly not Civ2...but is it a bad game? I don't think so. The game is fun and will keep you playing (just one more turn) for hours.

	17-12-2001 02:57									#15
	Re: PLEASE! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Desert Dog Look if your going try and flame me do a good job! The game is loaded with serious bugs. I know of NO ONE who is having a good time. (accept for your couple of posts)

A) I don't think anyone was flaming you, merely stating an opinion that differed from yours.

B) Wow, more than a couple of posts now from people having a good time! There *is* a world beyond your immediate point of view.

	17-12-2001 06:04									#16
	Tired of ads?

quote: ...its just that your one of those...

This particular grammatical mistake truly annoys me ...

	17-12-2001 08:12									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Just to point out - how can anyone consider this game to be massively bugged?

As far as I can tell, there was *one* serious bug in the first release - the air superiority problem. And I'm sorry, but I expect that most civ players would never encounter this, given that by the time modern tech rolls round a lot of players have already won.

(I personally *still* haven't used fighters at all in my games).

Looking at the bug list for the patch, most appear to be spelling mistakes, or peculiar wierd effects (extra long names,, etc etc.)

If you want to shout about bugs, go buy Diablo II, Baldurs Gate II Throne of Baal, Everquest : Shadows of Luclin, or any one of a *huge* number of modern releases that are seriously bugged.

Yes, Civ 3 had several bugs that should have been noticed - but it was playable out of the box, and compared to most other PC software is actually far superior for bugs after just one patch, never mind the 3 or 4 thats expected for a game nowadays.

Out of all the games I've bought over the past 6 months, Civ 3 has been the best for bugs and such, and I go through a lot of games.

(Note, thats a completely different to the idea of polishing the game up a bit - I agree completely it needs further changes, such as corruption).

	17-12-2001 08:31									#18
	Support Apolyton

Civ3 is very buggy compared to other releases this year, IMHO. I've tried a few, most notably Empire Earth, Sims: Hot Date, DAoC, Black and White, etc. Compared to other Firaxis/Microprose titles, Civ3 has been even more buggy. I had no problems with SMAC, Gettysburg, Civ2, and minor problems with Civ1, but we have to take the OS back then into consideration. Sure, it is nearly impossible to release a bug-free product, but Sid's team has had a decent track record so far, at least compared to other gaming companies.

The Air Superiority was not the only bug I saw. There were many, and they caused the game to be virtually unplayable for me pre-patch, though I tried my best anyway. The game has been relatively stable for me, but I have read many complaints by others, specifically those on XP, who have had crash problems.

I've said this in another thread, but it's worth saying again. Civ3 is a decent game now, even with the bugs and some balance issues, but it WILL BE an amazing game, well deserving of all the praise it has already received, once it is patched, has a decent editor, and has MP (assuming this happens). For me, being a long-time Civ buff, I would hardly consider it Overrated. It is the best Civ title so far, and was well worth my $50.

	17-12-2001 08:42									#19
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Civ3 buggier than BnW!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't bought Civ3, but I'd have imagined that nothing could be buggier than BnW.

	17-12-2001 08:47									#20
	Suffering from ads?

i think that desert dog is right, that civ3 is over rated, but i would give it an 8.5, it's a good game, just not great in my opinion

but i guess this is civ3's greatest flaw
fallout tactics is probably a worse game than civ3, but i had lower expectations for it and enjoy it more

i get dissapointed as hell to see all of the improvements in civ3, then to see things like combat and diplomacy that are worse than civ2 and SMAC respectively

EDIT: still though if you liked civ2 {and aren't fanatically obsessed with it, but then why are you here? } civ3 is worth the money

	17-12-2001 08:50									#21
	Re: Re: PLEASE! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by splangy A:learn how to spell (it's except, not accept) B: Learn that many people have oppinions THAT AREN'T THE EXACT SAME AS YOURS!!! The game hasn't crashed once for me BTW... unbalenced. you need to relise your not the center of the universe, and that very few people care what you think. Now, GET A LIFE

Okay you really gave it a good try flaming me! You mispelled much more than I did SON! I am 46 years old need glasses and do not wear them half the time. I am glad the game has not crashed once on you. I know at least 30 people who are customers of mine who are. Some of them did not even purchase their PC from me. I am not insulted by your comments. Many of the bugs I refer to are not crashes. Just really bad approach to something that has already been done in another game.
I like the game in general but little things being broke is quite annoying. Like the workers running around in a loop, or building mines, then later irrigating over it, later switching again. I have a list not my personal complaint list but a real list of problems. Later..

Desert Dog

	17-12-2001 08:56									#22
	Your right I am mad! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Be'lial Just to point out - how can anyone consider this game to be massively bugged? As far as I can tell, there was *one* serious bug in the first release - the air superiority problem. And I'm sorry, but I expect that most civ players would never encounter this, given that by the time modern tech rolls round a lot of players have already won. (I personally *still* haven't used fighters at all in my games). Looking at the bug list for the patch, most appear to be spelling mistakes, or peculiar wierd effects (extra long names,, etc etc.) If you want to shout about bugs, go buy Diablo II, Baldurs Gate II Throne of Baal, Everquest : Shadows of Luclin, or any one of a *huge* number of modern releases that are seriously bugged. Yes, Civ 3 had several bugs that should have been noticed - but it was playable out of the box, and compared to most other PC software is actually far superior for bugs after just one patch, never mind the 3 or 4 thats expected for a game nowadays. Out of all the games I've bought over the past 6 months, Civ 3 has been the best for bugs and such, and I go through a lot of games. (Note, thats a completely different to the idea of polishing the game up a bit - I agree completely it needs further changes, such as corruption).

Your right I am mad that is all. The patch caused the game to crash. I only had crashes before that when I gave too many bonuses to my civ messing around with editor.

I am having a blast with Korn's Blitz mod. It works much better then the patch which is funny!
The game has some little silly bugs. It is annoying that they left out some proven game play techniques from civ 2 and smac. I am disappointed and mad. Sorry to spoil anyone's party. At least you are not hammering my spelling, give me a break how big a geek are you when you get on someone for typo's in message forums .

Desert Dog

	17-12-2001 08:58									#23
	huh? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by yin26 This particular grammatical mistake truly annoys me ...

You annoy me now go away!

Desert Dog

	17-12-2001 09:05									#24
	Re: Your right I am mad! Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Desert Dog Your right I am mad that is all. The patch caused the game to crash. I only had crashes before that when I gave too many bonuses to my civ messing around with editor. I am having a blast with Korn's Blitz mod. It works much better then the patch which is funny! The game has some little silly bugs. It is annoying that they left out some proven game play techniques from civ 2 and smac. I am disappointed and mad. Sorry to spoil anyone's party. At least you are not hammering my spelling, give me a break how big a geek are you when you get on someone for typo's in message forums . Desert Dog

First: Just to piss you off, you spelled typos wrong. It's 'typos' not 'typo's'. Also, your subject should read 'You're' instead of 'Your'. I really hope that was intentional sarcasm

Secondly: A mod CANNOT fix stability issues (as far as crashing goes). That is all internal code that is not released to the public. All it can is change the rules around and such.

Thirdly: I'm having a blast with the game. Military units are fairly balanced IMNSHO (meaning, I have to WORK for my victories) and the AI is fairly tough at the higher difficulty levels.

-ER

	17-12-2001 09:27									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

if you could see me now, i would be waving a big stick, thwacking it on the hothead's skulls, and asking for calm.

some people don't like civ3. some people do.

it's a fact. get over it. don't start b|tching at each other because of differences of opinion, please. don't go for ad hominem attacks, don't try to erode their credibility by hitting them below the belt, i.e., avoiding their reasons and going straight for the persona.

that's just not... kosher, for lack of a better word.

that said:

but see, i don't think it's overrated. reviews are, once you think about it, opinions. those that reviewed it who gave it high scores may well have liked it a lot. so they gave it high rankings. maybe there just weren't that many tbs games to choose from this year (i actually can't think of that many released)

that also said:

i dunno. i like the game. i do. but i see a lot of places where it could definitely be improved upon, such as combat, queueing (i don't like not being able to save more than 1 queue), diplomatic options (smac/x had a lot more... and a lot better), and general slowness (it's the interface. i dunno, it just feels slower. not because of the nvidia drivers, not because it takes longer to play with the techtree chokepoints... i mean the interface just seems slower... fewer clicks, perhaps, to change lots of things, but not as easy to access with keyboard shortcuts, i guess...)

overall, though, i don't think firaxis has been so bad about things as infogrames. infogrames ought to be the pariah, the one that is to be tarred, feathered, battered, fried, dunked, and iced. they're the ones that i think rushed production, they're the ones being anal about modding rights and strategy guide rights.

and as for the grammar stuff...

let's drop it. i really don't want to point out every single flaw i see.

	17-12-2001 13:20									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't know about you guys but my opininon is:

8.5/10 (before patch)

8.8/10 (after first patch)


9.5/10 (after 3-10 patches, or when MP is out)

good sides: VERY addictive
bad sides: It just NEEDs patches, no MP

	17-12-2001 13:34									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Actually this game is overrated. I agree with that. But I am still haveing a blast, especially post-patch. I have XP and the game has never crashed.

	17-12-2001 17:23									#28
	Re: Re: Re: PLEASE! Thanks! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Nuke gay whales Don't you just love people who criticize others while making the same mistakes? If you are going to act smart and pick on someone’s English, then maybe you should make sure that your writing skills are perfect... "oppinions" only has one p "english" should be capitalized "lieing" is spelt "lying" "dont" should be don't "dosen't" is spelt "doesn't" "unbalenced" is spelt "unbalanced" "relise" is spelt "realize" Hey EVERYONE makes mistakes - so stop picking on this guys errors when you seem to have difficulty yourself...

Thank you for backing me up even if I was slightly out of line. I am extremely disappointed with civ 3, however it is far from a terrible game. It is better then Call To Power that it seems to be built around at least! I am sure they will fix most problems the things they did not include in this game from previous proven techniques just blows me away! This is why I say Sid had very little to do with the design of the game!

Desert Dog

	17-12-2001 17:32									#29
	Re: Re: Your right I am mad! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Evil Robot First: Just to piss you off, you spelled typos wrong. It's 'typos' not 'typo's'. Also, your subject should read 'You're' instead of 'Your'. I really hope that was intentional sarcasm Secondly: A mod CANNOT fix stability issues (as far as crashing goes). That is all internal code that is not released to the public. All it can is change the rules around and such. Thirdly: I'm having a blast with the game. Military units are fairly balanced IMNSHO (meaning, I have to WORK for my victories) and the AI is fairly tough at the higher difficulty levels. -ER

You really have a complex don't you? Does it make you feel better correcting my grammer? Or does it make your ego bigger? Whatever the case STOP BEING A FREAKING GEEK!
I am glad your happy with the game, I am not and I am entitled to have my own opinion even if I mispell ever single word! You are only making an ass out of yourself trying to be a freaking teacher or something whatever your motive. I am far from an idiot you are trying to make me out to be!

My point about the mod is that it is more stable then the patch! Are you trying to show your intelligence by trying to tell me the difference between a mod and a patch? You loose if that is the case big time!
I am a civ 2 addict that is really disappointed by the way civ 3 is designed. Plain and simple. If you don't like my opinion then don't read it and don't respond to it!
I am not pissed I am annoyed with having to put up with the little KIDDIE comments from the peanut gallery!

You are not doing anything but making a fool out of yourself so go ahead and keep correcting my english!

Desert Dog

	17-12-2001 19:12									#30
	CTP? You're drunk. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Desert Dog It is better then Call To Power that it seems to be built around at least!

You keep saying this. Did you actually play CTP? Did you actually play SMAC or CivII? Have you seen the games?

I wanna see a good (and with some luck, comprehensible) comparison between the Civ3 and CTP engines. I have trouble that even you believe the words you are spouting.