17-12-2001 09:56									#1
	How is the Mac Civ II Different from PC Version? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Everyone:

Just what the subject line states. During my time at 'Poly, I've seen some issues raised about the PC version of Civ II that I never really encounter when I play the game (such as the monumentally stupid AI). Is this just a figment of my imagination or was the code tightened a bit for the Mac release?

CYBERAmazon

(P.S. One thing that is common across the platforms is the AI's non-use of aircraft carriers, which is sad.)

	06-01-2002 01:41									#2
	Re: How is the Mac Civ II Different from PC Version? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by CYBERAmazon Everyone: Just what the subject line states. During my time at 'Poly, I've seen some issues raised about the PC version of Civ II that I never really encounter when I play the game (such as the monumentally stupid AI). Is this just a figment of my imagination or was the code tightened a bit for the Mac release?

I believe so, yes, but only for the classic version, it seems they ported MGE directly from PC MGE and didnt do the same changes, thus the mac MGE AI is just as stupid as the PC AI (I used to use the goto comand when I had the classic version, something I for obvious reasons had to stop doing when I got MGE).

	08-02-2002 06:37									#3
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If you're talking about the classic release, CYBER, I don't think there's much of a difference (only played for ten minutes on the PC, but I'm pretty sure - as for bugs, that's a much more definite cutoff, macs are quite a bit more stable in my experiance). MGE is probably where the AI holes start to appear.

	08-02-2002 12:09									#4
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Henrik, Wiglaf:

**shudder** The Mac version of MGE leaves two solid memories in my mind: the incredibly aggressive AI and, worse, the bug that would crash the program when trying to exit it.

CYBERAmazon

	14-02-2002 02:56									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

*shrugs* I've never noticed much of a problem... once I got my G4 I actually started getting graphic errors on the screen with the other empire leader, but that's about it.

	14-02-2002 05:05									#6
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quote: **shudder** The Mac version of MGE leaves two solid memories in my mind: the incredibly aggressive AI and, worse, the bug that would crash the program when trying to exit it.

Hm. What OS was that crash bug on?

	14-02-2002 09:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf Hm. What OS was that crash bug on?

8.5.1

I still use that OS, too, and won't change it since I plan on buying a 700mhz iMac in the next few months or so. If I recall right, Brian Nesse (a Macsoft programmer) said it was something related to the MP part of the game. We never could fix it, short of ripping out the MP.

CYBERAmazon

	14-02-2002 10:03									#8
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That crash when quitting glitch disappeared from my mac version with one of the patches.I don't recall it being mentioned but it was gone.It didn't affect save games....TG.

The mac version looks slightly better.Nicer fonts and sizes.Smaller dialogue boxes.Couple of the pc dialogue boxes stretch across the entire screen for a few sentences.

One thing I have not seen in the pc version is barbs before founding.This would happen occasionally in the mac version.Quite rare but possible.

The outstanding MAC issue involved barbs freezing the game in mp.Nesse surmized we might lose pc compatibilty to fully fix it.Thankfully, it is also quite infrequent.

	01-03-2002 18:50									#9
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I've been running civ 2 on a power mac 4400/200 with OS 8.6 for years and didn't notice any serious glitches, but I've never played it on a pc to compare.

	07-03-2002 00:36									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Smash That crash when quitting glitch disappeared from my mac version with one of the patches.I don't recall it being mentioned but it was gone.It didn't affect save games....TG.

Hmpfh. We were never able to get rid of it on my computer — an iMac 333mhz, 8.5.1 with 160 RAM. Nesse did say it appeared to be a hit-n-miss problem that didn't pop up on all the Macintoshes, though. But I wasn't the only one who had this problem. Odd, isn't it?

CYBERAmazon

	07-03-2002 00:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by lucy78green I've been running civ 2 on a power mac 4400/200 with OS 8.6 for years and didn't notice any serious glitches, but I've never played it on a pc to compare.

The only glitch I've ever noticed — the "exit program" command that crashes the game half the time — was with Civ II Gold (multiplayer). The normal Civ II game has no glitches, insofar as I can tell (which is why I don't want to part with it when I upgrade to an iMac 800mhz w/OS10.1.x in a few months).

CYBERAmazon

	01-04-2002 02:01									#12
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Civ 2 runs oh so well on my mac... Practically flawlessly. Of course, the AI isn't the smartest, but that's ok by me!

	07-05-2002 15:41									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My MGE still jams on the AI turn. Did it twice in a session recently. On the other hand, I can play for weeks without a problem. Brian Nesse said it was insoluble.

Oh, and the biggest difference between the PC and Mac versions, to my mind, is that the barbs can kill a Mac capital if it's your first and only city. Not always, but they can do it. Because they've done it to me. On the PC version, your capital (as first and only city) is safe no matter what the barbs throw at it.

	07-05-2002 21:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Oh, and the biggest difference between the PC and Mac versions, to my mind, is that the barbs can kill a Mac capital if it's your first and only city. Not always, but they can do it. Because they've done it to me. On the PC version, your capital (as first and only city) is safe no matter what the barbs throw at it.

Now that's a cool difference... never had barbs take a city of mine except early on before I sent out settlers wo/ some kind of protection from the get-go.

	13-06-2002 08:08									#15
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Oh, also, civ 2 for mac has a secret level.

	13-06-2002 12:05									#16
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Monolith94:

Oh, really? Do explain, please. I'd love to discover something new about Civ II.

Gatekeeper

	13-06-2002 18:32									#17
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Secret level? Now I'm interested... you better not be pulling my leg!

	22-06-2003 22:29									#18
	Got spare money?

The two MGE's are the same, except the mac version is 10x buggier. I've never had the PC version crash on me (I've played it a lot more) and the Mac version has crashed several times. Good thing I had auto save on... grrrrr.

	23-06-2003 05:46									#19
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Mine was virtually faultless after the release of the last patch. Very, very occasionally it will still freeze during an AI turn - usually the Barbs - in a game, but nowhere near as often as it used to.

I remember when we were communicating via email with the guy from MacSoft who was doing the patches. He said most of the Mac-version problems were the result of the very original, slapdash conversion to create the PC multi-player version of the game. I remember him passing on some of the messages left within the code by those who did the conversion - they often weren't sure what they were doing, and left messages to that effect.

	29-06-2003 01:17									#20
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I'm using OS 9 and it's very unstable in multiplayer.

	29-06-2003 01:23									#21
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I've been playing Civ 2 online in os 9 for ages without much problems (though I did have the occasional termination of the program, basicly I've found that if you use the kingchat during the barbarian turn chances are tilted towards the game terminating).
I've not played a lot of MP since I got osx but my impression is that it still works well.

	07-07-2003 07:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik (though I did have the occasional termination of the program, basicly I've found that if you use the kingchat during the barbarian turn chances are tilted towards the game terminating).

Doing anything during the barb turn used to be a problem. I've also found that typing too much King Chat in one slab will sometimes crash the game.

	07-07-2003 11:28									#23
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Y'know, it's just strange for me to read the beginning of this thread way back in December 2001. I was known as CYBERAmazon back then ...

Heh. And I still play lots of Civ II (standard edition). Every once-in-a-while I'll play one of the scenarios from the Gold version, but only rarely. The "crash-upon-exit" still pops up more often than not with that version.

Gatekeeper

	07-07-2003 18:55									#24
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Never had that happen in os x...

EDIT: That would be in "classic" on my OS X machine

	08-07-2003 11:07									#25
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Consider yourself fortunate. Between that bug and the overly-aggressive AI, I pretty much ignore Civ II Gold. Thank goodness for classic Civ II.

Gatekeeper

	17-07-2003 18:32									#26
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(wimp)

I run MGE with the current (1.1) patch on OS 9.1 and have rarely experienced a problem. Haven't crashed in over a year, and have only observed a minor glitch or two along the way.

As for differences, my experiences with AI attitude (eg when gifting techs to get maps) seems different from that described by some PC brethren. On my game, the AI civ's attitude goes back to negative (Uncoop, or worse) usually after just one turn. Not a big deal, but it makes alliances worthless and getting repeated maps impossible. Wondering if this is true or just a "seems to be."

Also, is it true that a map trade Requires the AI to be Worshipful? It seems that way to me.

I suspect that these are actually 2.42 vs MGE issues...

	18-07-2003 10:24									#27
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I've noticed the one-turn attitude change as well, but mostly in the latter stages of the game (say, after 1750 AD). However, I've traded maps with nations that were "cordial," but never below that level. I know that the higher the difficulty level, the harder it can be to trade maps. At Emperor and above, I've had "worshipful" nations refuse to trade maps ... more often "enthusiastic," though.

Gatekeeper

	21-07-2003 19:47									#28
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Hm. I always play Deity, so that's probably the cause.

The attitude change observation is common even in BC years.

	23-07-2003 14:27									#29
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The attitude thing only happens with MGE, on both PC and mac as far as I gather (and I've been doing a lot of comparing as I have PC testers for my civ 2 MGE scenarios).

	27-07-2003 12:35									#30
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I only ever play Deity and I've never had an AI civ exchange maps with anything less than an "enthusiastic" attitude. Usually, it requires "worshipful". Sometimes they won't even exchange when they're "worshipful". Another factor that seems to enter into their willingness to exchange maps is the Great Wall. If I have it, they seem more willing to exchange. It might just be coincidence. I must test the theory.