19-12-2001 00:32									#1
	Civver Polarisation: Uber-Geeks/Little Napoleons Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In course of a previous thread, it struck me there are two sorts of Civ players posting here, and that the release of Civ3 seems to have made it somewhat harder for them to get along.
The first sort is the "Uber-Geek" who views the game as a challenge, a puzzle even, and derives enjoyment from finding the best way to beat the computer. It doesn't matter to such a player if silly things happen like pikemen beating tanks, because it's only a game anyway, and can never be realistic. Such people are happy to wile away the hours developing the perfect system for winning the game by any means necessary - note, however, that most Uber-Geeks will never cheat, except for research purposes, because that, after all, is cheating. Taking advantage of a bug may be okay, however.
The second sort of player we'll call the "Little Napoleon". This sort of player wants amusement first and foremost. The Little Napoleon wants Civ to be a sort of "Empire simulator" to some extent... if you for instance bekin to put on ze eccent a liddle bit like zis ven you are playing ze Chermans, go "Wuhahahar!" when you conquer an enemy, frequently rename your civilisation at the start, and love mod packs, you are likely a Little Napoleon. For such a player, beating the AI isn't important - when in the mood a Little Napoleon may play at Deity level with Rampaging Hordes just to giggle at how quickly all his cities end up in flaming ruins, but at other times may not be satisfied with anything less than total world domination achieved with minimum effort. This means Little Napoleons will cheat when they feel like it. It's the feel of the game that interests, not the numbers.
I admit that I'm in the Little Napoleon mould. The trouble starts because people like me get the feeling that Civ3, unlike Civ1 and Civ2, has been written with only the Uber-Geek in mind. The game is harder on all levels - generally I feel that each Civ3 level is perhaps 2 levels tougher than its Civ2 equivalent. Little Napoleons are frustrated by the lack of scope to just mess about a bit without taking the game too seriously. Uber-Geeks, not understanding them, think they're spoilt.... this leads to bad feeling, with Uber-Geeks viewing Little Napoleons as whiners and just bad players who've been left behind. For their part Little Napoleons start to view Uber-Geeks as obsessive-compulsive Borg drones who don't know how to have fun without a spreadsheet.
Sadly, I can't see any way out of this. Sorry.
Maybe Civ3 just needed a broader range of difficulty levels instead of just making everything harder.

	19-12-2001 01:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Amazing.
I don't know if it works for the "uber-geeks", but I saw myself in the picture of Little Napoléon, with such accuracy that I can't help to think there is something very true in your description

	19-12-2001 01:48									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Which is more offensive: to be called an "Uber-Geek" or a "Little Napoleon"?

Just what we need - more labels

	19-12-2001 01:54									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh shut up and stop whining about the game being so hard you little french midgit

	19-12-2001 02:18									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

What if, as a player, you realise that Civ3 is "only a game anyway, and can never be realistic," but at the same time "wants Civ to be a sort of 'Empire simulator' to some extent ?"

Would that make for a hybrid gamer, a kind of Napolo-geek , perhaps?

Vive l'empereur! Vive la geek!

	19-12-2001 02:30									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Where does the "I want to win without having to think." player come in?

I've seen lots of posts like "I lost a city to AI culture, therefore culture sux!"
Or, "I can't win with just tanks anymore, modern units should be unbeatable!"
Or, "The AI is ganging up on my weak civ, the AI should leave me alone!"
Or, "The AI expands too fast, it should be slow and stupid like civ2 AI!"

	19-12-2001 02:42									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

HalfLotus, that's why Brian and his ilk are doing RTS games.

C Chu: Not bad, not bad at all.

	19-12-2001 02:59									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

"The second sort of player we'll call the "Little Napoleon". This sort of player wants amusement first and foremost. The Little Napoleon wants Civ to be a sort of "Empire simulator" to some extent... if you for instance bekin to put on ze eccent a liddle bit like zis ven you are playing ze Chermans, go "Wuhahahar!" when you conquer an enemy, frequently rename your civilisation at the start, and love mod packs, you are likely a Little Napoleon"

i'm DEFINATELY a "little napoleon". except i usually use the russians and speak with a russian accent when i'm conquering

one of the things i miss from civ2 was the cheat mode. sometimes i just want to skip to the modern age (all civ's, not just mine) and play like that.

Sometimes I would like to play just a middle ages type of game, etc. Hopefully this will be possible in the future with a patch or gold edition. I mean, just how many times can you play this game without a scenario? I've reached my limit of games.

	19-12-2001 03:47									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by ****gyRA Which is more offensive: to be called an "Uber-Geek" or a "Little Napoleon"? Just what we need - more labels

Well, you see, the World is divided into two sorts of people: those who think that the World is divided into two sorts of people and those who don't.

	19-12-2001 04:18									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Going by the civs I typically play in Civ II, I'd say I'm more of a Little Churchill or a Little Hirohito. ^_^

I remember going through, buying out the cities of my enemies and renaming them with romaji equivalents. Chicago became Shikago, New York became Nyuuyookushitii, Seattle became Seatoru, and finally I conquered Washinton. I think Babiron, Beijin, and Pari were also in there somewhere.

	19-12-2001 05:15									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by EnochF Going by the civs I typically play in Civ II, I'd say I'm more of a Little Churchill or a Little Hirohito. ^_^ I remember going through, buying out the cities of my enemies and renaming them with romaji equivalents. Chicago became Shikago, New York became Nyuuyookushitii, Seattle became Seatoru, and finally I conquered Washinton. I think Babiron, Beijin, and Pari were also in there somewhere.

Except that Beijing, being a Chinese city, is (unlike the others mentioned) written in Kanji, and its romaji equivalent is "pekin" and means "Northern Capital".

So, you'll have to go back into all your old save games and correct this