19-12-2001 03:51									#1
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This question relates to the implementation of new technology (in making new buildings, weapons, whatever).

Will high-tech devices (meaning just about everything except for muscle-power) have a chance of failing in MOO3? For example, let's say I've got a Deep Core Mine on Planet Wutang. Barring sabatoge or attack or whatever (i.e. barring external causes), is there a chance that this Deep Core Mine will experience a critical failure (meltdown, cave-in, whatever--I'm not exactly sure how a "deep core mine" would fail, but it certainly sounds like something that is prone to failure)? E.g., I'd receive a message like "The mine shaft to your Deep Core Mine has cracked, the mine will operate at 50% efficiency until it repaired for 10% of the original cost of the mine" or "Your nuclear power plant has melted down, the power plant is now a burnt out radioactive shell and it will continue to spew out pollution and poison Planet Wutang's citizens until you have cleaned it up for 400% of the original cost."

If the answer is yes, then will devices experience a decreasing chance of failure as my expertise with them increases? For example, "Plasma Cannons" might initially have a chance of malfunction (minor failure, e.g. the cannons deal less damage or have reduced range due to jamming or overheating) of 25% and a chance of critical failure (e.g. the cannons stop working entirely, the cannons go critical and damage the ship, etc.) of 5%, but as I improve my Plasma Cannon technology I decrease the chance of malfunction to, say, 2%, and the chance of critical failure to, say, .05%. The alternative is that Plasma Cannons will ALWAYS have the same rate of malfunction/failure.

I ask because it would be interesting if there were a certain balance between using "cool new" technologies and "tried and true" technologies. Race A might put the cool new weapons on all of its ships, for instance, while Race B puts weapons that are fairly tried and true on all of its ships; Race A's ships pack more of a punch, but are much more inconsistent in their performace. In a battle between moderately equal-sized fleets from Race A and Race B the outcome would be anything but predetermined. A race of "Fantastic Engineers" might have a lower initial chance of failure with new technologies (and their chance of failure would decrease more rapidly as their prowess with the new technology improved), and a race of "Fantastic Scientists" might have a greater predisposition to using "cool new" technologies (your governors/admirals/whatever will build the most high-tech devices possible unless you explicitely order them not to, and even then they might countermand your orders).

	19-12-2001 18:21									#2
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There's nothing like what you describe in the game, no. You could certainly suggest some events like that, though; I don't know if Sencho has had any.

	19-12-2001 21:13									#3
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techno,

How come all your posts are so long-winded?

Good idea though. What's the difference between "failure" and "criitical failure?" Take your example of deep-core mining, what effects does a simple failure have, and what effects does a critical failure have?

In MoO there's already a "nuclear reactor accident" event. It's main function is to screw up the human player, costing him millions to clean up the mess. IIRC, it also turns that planet into radiated.

	19-12-2001 21:29									#4
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Very interesting idea

I especially like it from the ship design perspective. I always found it strange that I could be using phasors for a long time and on many ships, and if an enemy got the tech they could instantly use them as well as me. Even better if they had a higher level and thus, more minaturization.

	19-12-2001 22:55									#5
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I've had a couple of events along these lines. But more are always accepted.

	19-12-2001 23:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How come all your posts are so long-winded?

It's a personal problem. (To be fair, though, most of my posts are short and pointless; it's only on Ethics, MOO3, and the old Civ3 list threads that my posts are long and pointless ).

I'd call a "failure" (or "malfunction") an event that would reduce the efficiency of the deep core mine without causing peripheral damage. Malfunctions can usually be repaired for a fraction of the original cost of the malfunctioning device, and repairs never cost more than the original cost of the device; if repairing my malfunctioning deep core mine will cost twice its original cost, then I'll just build a new deep core mine.

A "critical failure" is an event that would cause the mine to stop functioning, but causes additional problems besides; correcting a critical failure almost always costs considerably more than the original cost of the device. The nuclear reactor melting down is the best example of a critical failure; not only has the power plant stopped working, but you've developed a whole mess of problems besides.

	20-12-2001 14:50									#7
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Okay, so not only a replacement device or improvement needs to be built, but money must be spent to fix other problems as well.

That's good if it's implemented fairly, so the program doesn't gain another weapon to screw up just the human player(s). Like in MoO I always had the nasty events happen to me, all of them in every game, in fact.

Just to refresh your memory, the "nuclear reactor accident" is just an event. As you may know a player doesn't need to build improvements on every single planet a la MoO 2.

	20-12-2001 20:36									#8
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I'm only familiar with MOO2; I've never played nor seen MOO.

(Is it just me, or is it kind of disturbing to have a santa-hat on a sad face? It's sort of like a crying clown, or a grinning politician.)

	21-12-2001 15:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by technophile I'm only familiar with MOO2; I've never played nor seen MOO.

Should try that some time. Maybe you can find it at abandonware sites.

quote: Originally posted by technophile (Is it just me, or is it kind of disturbing to have a santa-hat on a sad face? It's sort of like a crying clown, or a grinning politician.)

For that matter, on "mad," "rolleyes," "sticks tongue out," "embarassed," "eek," "confused," "hmmm" and "doitnow!" smilies. Very odd effects.

	21-12-2001 19:28									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You can even have MOO for FREE somewhere, I'm sure, I read it on a game site lately but don't remember which one. Perhaps it's an upcoming package. Somebody, details?

	22-12-2001 06:58									#11
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How about an event where a Work experience employee accidentally hits a switch that makes the Planetary gravity generator go into overdrive and flattens every structure on the planet making it a Desert world.

Or all the files on a computer get wiped , erasing the plans for your next battle star or Antimatter cannon.

I'm making a game similar to MOO3 , it should be in the shops in a few months

	22-12-2001 09:15									#12
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This is a little off topic but...

I thought there were no buildings? I thought they were going back to the slider bar from MOO1.

	22-12-2001 21:18									#13
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Actually, you're getting both. There are slider bars and buildings in Moo3.

	22-12-2001 21:40									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus You can even have MOO for FREE somewhere, I'm sure, I read it on a game site lately but don't remember which one. Perhaps it's an upcoming package. Somebody, details?

Its somewhere on the quicksilver site: MOO3 home


Quixote

	05-01-2002 11:22									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It can also be found directly on this page. It was also included in the latest edition of Computer Gaming World magazine, but why spend $8.95 when you can go to the above site?

This guy even has the game manual in PDF format.

	14-01-2002 10:08									#16
	related off-topic... sorta Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

technophile,

I think your idea/suggestion in your original post is a wonderful game balance feature, can't think of a single game that even exploits more then a small part of it's potential.. hope a game designer somewhere adds it to thier 'Book of Ideas" for a fututre project.
Now for the real reason for this reply, In the distant past I remember reading a sci-fi short story or novella, where this principle was key to the plot. Basically it's the human vs 'another race' The human both outnumber and outgun the aliens at the begining, but then invoke the 'super-engineer syndrome' you mentioned (The final blow was that the humans started using point singularity weapons, but after extended use the weapons artifical gravity wells 'micro-warped' each ship thus rendereding interchangable parts unuseable, ie. parts couldn't be pre-fabricated for ships) In the end the humans end up losing due to the principle you discribed...

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE AURTHOR OR NAME OF THIS SHORT STORY!?!? IT'S DRIVING ME INSANE!!!!!!!!