20-12-2001 21:09									#1
	Realistic Government Mod Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have noticed that no one has a mod with aditional governments that are realistic and balance the game(except for the fascism mod). I have been working on trying to make one and would like some feedback on my ideas. I have not posted the mod because it isn't finished.

All of the starting governments are the same. The unit cost on all governments has been doubled(I'm tired of democracies and republics fielding lagre armies). I find that this simple change brings back the government's influence on an army's size seen in civ 1 and 2.

New governments

Tribes- starting government
Support: 1 town, 1 city, 1 metropolis
Hurry production: forced labor
Draft limit: 3
Military police: 1
Corruption: rampant
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 4
Standard Tile Penalty
immune to establishing embassies
Rate cap:6

I made this government because I was uncomfortable with Despotism being the starting gov, being that the strongmen didn't start appearing until later than civ 3 starts. The high draft limit is there to represent some tribal people's ability to resist invasion.

City States: pre-masonry
Support: 1 town, 1 city, 1 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 1
Military police: 0
Corruption: rampant
War weariness: high
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 4
Rate cap: 6

I don't like this government, but feel it should have a place. I'm thinking of changing the corruption level but don't have any idea where its place among the balance of the other govs.

Theocracy: pre-Polytheism
Support: 1 town, 2 city, 4 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 1
Military police: 2
Corruption: problematic
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 3
Rate cap: 7

This government is there to represent the pre-strongman rule in places like mesopotamia(sp?) by the priests. Because of this I made it a scaled back version of Monarchy.

Fuedalism: pre-feudalism
Support: 5 town, 5 city, 5 metropolis
Hurry production: forced labor
Draft limit: 2
Military police: 3
Corruption: rampant
War weariness: none
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 2
Rate cap: 7

Give me suggestions

Constitutional Monarchy- pre-education
Support: 1 town, 3 city, 6 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 1
Military police: 2
Corruption: problematic
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 2
standard trade bonus
Rate cap: 7

This gov was in ancients mod and I like it.

Confedaration: pre-printing press
Support: 0 town, 0 city, 0 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 0
Military police: 0
Corruption: nuisance
War weariness: high
Worker rate: 3
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 10
Standard trade bonus
Rate cap:9

Think Articles of confederation or 17th century Holland. I am thinking of moving it up to Banking.

Stratocracy: pre-Military Tradition
Support: 3 town, 5 city, 10 metropolis
Hurry production: forced labor
Draft limit: 3
Military police: 4
Corruption: problematic
War weariness: none
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 2
Rate cap: 8

I have the most trouble with this gov. I am thinking of moving it up to Military tradition and making minor changes. It is here to represent rule by the military.


Socialism: pre-industrialization
Support: 1 town, 2 city, 4 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 1
Military police: 2
Corruption: communal
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 4
Standard trade bonus
immune to initiate propoganda
Rate cap: 9

I am thinking of getting rid of its immunity. It is suppose to be in between communism and democracy.

Fascism: pre-espionage
Support: 1 town, 3 city, 6 metropolis
Hurry production: forced labor
Draft limit: 2
Military police: 4
Corruption: nusiance
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 2
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 2
Standard Trade Bonus
immune to steal technology
Rate cap: 8

Same as communism except of the corruption.

Corporate State: pre-The Corperation
Support: 0 town, 0 city, 0 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 0
Military police: 0
Corruption: nusiance
War weariness: high
Worker rate: 3
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 10
standard trade bonus
Rate cap: 10

Think 19th century Holland or what republicans would like to do to America.

Fanaticism
Corporate State: pre-Scientific Method
Support: all units free
Hurry production: forced labor
Draft limit: 4
Military police: 5
Corruption: nusiance
War weariness: none
Worker rate: 2
Assimilation chance: 2
Standard tile penalty
immune to expose enemy mole
Rate cap: 8

Think French Terror or Afganistan

New World Order: pre-satellites
Support: 1 town, 2 city, 3 metropolis
Hurry production: paid labor
Draft limit: 1
Military police: 1
Corruption: nusiance
War weariness: low
Worker rate: 3
Requires mantinance
Assimilation chance: 15
standard trade bonus
immune to sabotage production
Rate cap: 10

This is a made up government but I thought the modern age needed a new gov.

So, give me your feedback. It is still a work in progress. I have yet to make all of the propoganda relationships and put rate cap into effect. When I made this I tried to balance military strength with internal improvements, tade bonuses, and corruption.

I did us my historical knowledge in making this mod, even though I haven't mentioned too much here.

Last edited by Duddha on 24-12-2001 at 23:17

	21-12-2001 08:18									#2
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I think some of your Worker Rates are too high. The Corporate State will probably be had by the time you have Replaceable Parts, which also greatly increases the speed of your workers. With a Worker Rate of 6 a non-Industrious civ will have workers as fast as an Industrious civ running a Democracy, which is already so fast (by the time you add Replaceable Parts) that most improvements can be made in 2 turns with a single worker. If you combined that government with an Industrious civ they would be putting roads, irrigation, mines, and fortresses in one turn with a single worker and be able to mow down jungles and forests in no time with small teams of workers. Seems a bit much, despite the drawbacks and the fact that by the time you get it you will have made almost every improvement you want, anyway.

	22-12-2001 04:10									#3
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"New World Order"?

You mean...some kind of Jewish conspiracy that kooks like to talk about when they aren't wearing their white hoods?

	24-12-2001 08:59									#4
	Re: Realistic Government Mod Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Duddha All of the starting governments are the same. The unit cost on all governments has been doubled(I'm tired of democracies and republics fielding lagre armies).

One of the largest, if not THE largest, armed force, is under a democratic republic...

	24-12-2001 23:30									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I made some changes and now to respond.

Badtz Maru: I'm glad you noticed the worker rates were to high. I put them back to how I first had them (I changed them to try and get the computer to play those govs). Forgot to mention that I changed dem worker rate to 2 instead of 3. This helps to balance dem with the others.

David Murray: I hope I haven't scared you. My "New World Order" gov is like the globization were all the modern govs are mixed together. I know it sounds silly to have a globilzation gov for one civ at a time.

Keyser Soze 0: My change to the unit cost is based to real life. America is able to support a large army because of its size, nothing more. If you play civIII, with the change, you'll find that if your civ is in its golden age, big, and under democracy it is easy to build a large army.

Hope to post the mod soon.

	25-12-2001 22:55									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha David Murray: I hope I haven't scared you. My "New World Order" gov is like the globization were all the modern govs are mixed together. I know it sounds silly to have a globilzation gov for one civ at a time.

I see what you mean now--as in, One World government. Interesting...that could probably work if only Firaxis gave us more flexibility in the editor.

Actually, that one world government thing is a good idea for a conspiracy-based scenario...Firaxis, how about giving us a decent editor?

	16-02-2002 04:03									#7
	my new govs Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Here is the gov structure that I have playing around with:

Despotism
Tyrannical Priesthood
Imperial Buerocracy
Feudal Monarchy
Timocracy
Rebublican Oligarchy
Western Liberal Democracy
Totalitarian Dictatorship
Authoritarianism
Theocracy
Fundemental Theocracy
Social Democracy
Green Democracy

Depotism is the the same as the default. It includes anc ient one man rules and simple top down monarchies.

Tyrannical Priesthood comes with Mystisism. Think of ancient priest run small nations. I tweaking the settings. In playtesting the AI has often not used it (but it is hard to tell early in the game).

Imperial Buerocracy is with Code Of Laws. Think the Confustioist Chinease Empire. Lawyers and public servents carrying out the Empire demand. A later version would be the British Empire that ruled in India and elshwere. Productive, but don't rush them. Not a good warfighting gov. The AI uses it alot.

Feudal Monarchy is renamed from the standard civ3 monarchy. The rule book says it it is feudal monarchy so I renamed it that. The AI doesn't use it too much.

Timocracy is sort of a corrupted Feudalal Monarchy. COmes with Feudalism. I cripped from someone else s posting. The AI uses it rarely.

Republican Oligarchy is renamed from the civ3 Republic. I tried to break out Greco-Roman Republic, Confederate League, Emerging Democracy, Etc, but I found it too hard to differentiate within the game paramaters as they are. The AI uses it, but less frequently after I started addingother types.

Western Liberal Democracy is the renamed civ3 democracy. I aslo called it Modern Democracy for awhile. I chaned its name to differentiate from some other forms. I tweaked it slightly, too. The AI uses it.

Totalitarian Dictatorship is renamed from the civ3 communism. In practice, Communism (Lenninsist, Stalinist,Maoist, etc), Fascism, Nazism, Peronist, Military Dicatororship, really don't differ much. The game parameters don't leave much room tobreak them out. So, I just combined them under one name. The AI makes use of it soemtimes.

I created Authoritianism (comes with Nationalism) as a watered down Totalitarian Dicatorship. But, I found while play testing, neigther myself or the AI really ever used. So, I will most likely remove it and consider those types of governments to come under the Totolitarian Dictatorship category.

Theocracy comes with Theology. Think Papal States, Holy Roman Emprie, current Saudi Arabia, etc. The AI does make use of it.

Fundemental Theocracy becomes available with Industrilization (as a reaction to it, actually). This is similiar to the Civ2 fundementalism. The AI does make use of it.

Social Democracy with Sanatation. Units cost more, work a little less productive. Hard to differentiate it Western Liberal Democracy with game parameters. The AI didin't use it as far as I could tell.

Green Democracy with Ecology. Units cost more, work a little less productive. Hard to differentiate it Western Liberal Democracy with game parameters. The AI didin't use it as far as I could tell.

Corporate Republic (with Computers) Corportation really run the nation with Western Liberal Democratic institutions just be a facade to some extent (that could never happen, could it?) A little better productivity. Handles war weariness better, but the draft don't happen. I nice balanced alternative.

In the last playtested game, as I reached near the end, the 16 civilization has turned into 5. One of Fundemental Theocracy, One of Imperial Beurocracy, two of Western Liberal Democracy, and One Coporate Republic.

I could post my setting if anybody want.

	16-02-2002 07:20									#8
	Re: Realistic Government Mod Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Duddha City States: pre-masonry Support: 1 town, 1 city, 1 metropolis Hurry production: paid labor Draft limit: 1 Military police: 0 Corruption: rampant War weariness: high Worker rate: 2 Requires mantinance Assimilation chance: 4 Rate cap: 6

corruption = rampant? If you are talking about the Greek city-states (govt called the polis) corruption was almost nonexistent except for in the aristocracy, where even there it was very minimal. Please Explain YourSelf.

	17-02-2002 02:12									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Duddha, I do not understand what the socialist government is supposed to be. To me, "between communism and democracy" sounds like "between fire and ice". Can you please give an example from history?

Last edited by Optimizer on 17-02-2002 at 04:00

	17-02-2002 02:50									#10
	Re: Realistic Government Mod Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Duddha All of the starting governments are the same. The unit cost on all governments has been doubled(I'm tired of democracies and republics fielding lagre armies). I find that this simple change brings back the government's influence on an army's size seen in civ 1 and 2.

I was thinking about doing that with my Democracy and Republic, how does it work out in the game? Have you played against a Communist gov yet?

	17-02-2002 13:40									#11
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Optimizer Duddha, I do not understand what the socialist government is supposed to be. To me, "between communism and democracy" sounds like "between fire and ice". Can you please give an example from history?

I think he's either referring to cradle-to-grave welfare states like in Scandinavia, some form of Market Socialism like in Yogoslavia under Tito or perhaps some Utopia that hasn't been attempted yet (Bellamy or something). The term "socialism" is very vague and need not be incompatable with democracy (it depends on what you mean by the word).

	29-07-2002 04:02									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Wow, I didn't realize more than two ever responded to this thread. My government mod has changed since I posted this thread. Here is a list of what I currently have in my mod:

Despotism
City States
Deuscracy(couldn't think of a good name, early Theocracy)
Imperial
Republic
Monarchy
Feudalism
Theocracy
Constitutional Monarchy
Confederation
Democracy(almost forgot)
Stratocracy
Imperialism
Socialism
Communism
Fanaticism
Corporate State
Fascism
Neo-Imperialism

Each one has a unique Wonder and two specifc improvements, like the early Balancer mod.

If more people are interested I'll post some specifics about the govs.

quote: Duddha, I do not understand what the socialist government is supposed to be. To me, "between communism and democracy" sounds like "between fire and ice". Can you please give an example from history?

Think Sweden, I could have called it Welfare State but I think Socialism is a better name and it allows people to think of it the way they want.

	29-07-2002 09:21									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Isn't Sweden democratic?

Shall I feel insulted?

	29-07-2002 14:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha If more people are interested I'll post some specifics about the govs.

I'd actually like to know more about your whole mod, including the Wonders. Is it posted here on Poly?

	29-07-2002 15:42									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hehe, Majestic 12. I love killing them MJ12 guys on Deus Ex!

	30-07-2002 09:09									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I won't be at my computer for two weeks so I can't remember too many specifics but I remember the prereq

Despotism-none
City States-masonry
Deuscracy(couldn't think of a good name, early Theocracy) -polytheism
Imperial -currency
Republic -republic
Monarchy -monarchy
Feudalism -feudalism
Theocracy -theology
Constitutional Monarchy-education
Confederation -printing press
Democracy(almost forgot) -democracy
Stratocracy -military tradition
Imperialism -nationalism
Socialism -industrialization
Communism -communism
Fanaticism -espoinage sp?
Corporate State -corporation
Fascism -radio
Neo-Imperialism-ecology

What makes my mod unique is the govs, with specific improvements, and over 100 new units I've gotten from CFC. I took parts from the Balancer, DoublePleasure, and other mods I liked and added my own touch. I like my government model because governments are first described by their structure, second historical reality, third economic structure, and finaly ideological ideals. Many mods I see floating around either focus too much on ideology or get the governments place in history wrong.

The Socialist gov is ment to represent the utopian goals of the revolution of 1848. Few nations have been able to achieve the balance needed for such governments and similiarly the computer rarely picks socialism.

I haven't yet posted my mod. I think I've gotten most of my government balanced, or the computer chooses govs the way I would like it to.

Last edited by Duddha on 30-07-2002 at 09:15