22-12-2001 03:14									#1
	Which do you prefer: CTP2 or Civ3? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I noticed that CTP2 have the boarders like SMAC, which I like. I don't know how many bugs are in CTP2, though. Seeing all the bugs in Civ3 makes me wonder if CTP2 would be a better buy. I do like the whole ability to customize your civilization via CTP2. But I like the graphics for Civ3 better. So all in all, which is the better buy?

	22-12-2001 03:24									#2
	Re: Which do you prefer: CTP2 or Civ3? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Jamison I noticed that CTP2 have the boarders like SMAC, which I like. I don't know how many bugs are in CTP2, though. Seeing all the bugs in Civ3 makes me wonder if CTP2 would be a better buy. I do like the whole ability to customize your civilization via CTP2. But I like the graphics for Civ3 better. So all in all, which is the better buy?

Look at it this way:
I never had a crash with CtP2, and almost all known code/file bugs have been corrected by Kaan's FixMod, included in the Apolyton Pack II.
The Civ3 units are currently being converted into CtP2 sprites, and if you wish, the terrain and city styles could be converted too.

	22-12-2001 03:29									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

CTP2 has better concepts for armies, combat, public works but has a poor AI which cannot handle its military or its diplomacy. It is great if you want to conquer the world but not if you want something better balanced.

If you think Civ III has bugs, then CTP2 will be a nasty surprise - it hangs during turns and crashes back to desktop from time to time, ignoring the minor stuff

	22-12-2001 04:14									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you get ctp, expect to download a lot of mods to even make it playable. The main problem is terrible ai. It was insane before the mods. Now certain mods have made the ai more aggressive, but not really more intelligent. Diplomacy was way more detailed, but again the ai problems pretty much ruined it. It was a shame because ctp had a ton of good features. (slavers, corporate branch units, abolishonists, public works, armies)

	22-12-2001 04:55									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin If you think Civ III has bugs, then CTP2 will be a nasty surprise - it hangs during turns and crashes back to desktop from time to time, ignoring the minor stuff

Reports of bugs in CtP2 are vastly overexaggerated.
The AI is being developed. Wait til you find the fatal flaw in Civ3's AI, then try and mod it back to health.

	22-12-2001 09:53									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Look in the Community fourm for another thread on this topic. I think I had the last post in it.

BTW, glad to hear that you can convert Civ III graphics to Ctp. (Somebody please do the Rider!)
Wish you could convert the player-created ctp units to civ three.

	23-12-2001 07:03									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have both Civ 3 and CTP2. Civ 3 is much better than CTP2. You dont have as much problems with Civ 3 than with CTP2. CTP2 has tons of bugs that would make you crayzy. I hardly play CTP2 since it has tons of bugs . The other downside of CTP2 is that they used the same formant as C:CTP. CTP2 is just a plain bit copy of C:CTP.

quote: If you get ctp, expect to download a lot of mods to even make it playable. The main problem is terrible ai. It was insane before the mods. Now certain mods have made the ai more aggressive, but not really more intelligent. Diplomacy was way more detailed, but again the ai problems pretty much ruined it. It was a shame because ctp had a ton of good features. (slavers, corporate branch units, abolishonists, public works, armies) -kimmygibler

I would have to aggree with kimmygibler.

	23-12-2001 16:37									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

No question, Civ3. CtP2 was total and utter ****.

	23-12-2001 16:52									#9
	Suffering from ads?

That's not true, Provost. CtP2 was actually quite good, compared to its predecessor

	24-12-2001 00:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by WesW Wish you could convert the player-created ctp units to civ three.

You can it just takes a lot longer.

quote: Originally posted by Civfan01 I have both Civ 3 and CTP2. Civ 3 is much better than CTP2. You dont have as much problems with Civ 3 than with CTP2. CTP2 has tons of bugs that would make you crayzy. I hardly play CTP2 since it has tons of bugs .

What bugs? Serious question, I have never had any problems with the game whatsoever.

quote: The other downside of CTP2 is that they used the same formant as C:CTP. CTP2 is just a plain bit copy of C:CTP.

and? if yu haven't got CtP1, its not an issue.

quote: No question, Civ3. CtP2 was total and utter ****.

Thats not true Provost.

	24-12-2001 01:34									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Major bug in CTP2 on release was saved game bug, which caused saved games to crash to desktop within a few turns of reloading

This was partly fixed by parches but it still happens from time to time

	24-12-2001 03:05									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Major bug in CTP2 on release was saved game bug, which caused saved games to crash to desktop within a few turns of reloading This was partly fixed by parches but it still happens from time to time

IIRC (and half-doing as serch seemed to back me up), there were three bugs involving saved games.
1) Corruption of saved games -> Fixed by patch
2) pre/post-Patch problem -> Caused by patch. Games saved before the patch cannot be reloaded afer the patch. No longer a problem, as no-one has pre-patch saved game (see 1)
3) Un-repeatable and unconfirmed bugs, thought to be caused by dodgy gamefiles (altered between save and restore)

All these are either no problem (ModSwapper helps) or only causedby stupidity (I crashed a succession game by playing with modded gamefiles )

	24-12-2001 04:36									#13
	I prefer Civ2MP and Freeciv Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Civ2MP I prefer because it's the standard from which others are judged. It may be old but after all those years the playability, whether in MP or Scen, remains rock solid.

FreeCiv I like for another reason: "power". And with "power" I mean the power to change things (if you want to). Try and make it better ourselves instead of begging&whining about patches and updates from a companies that don't really care about customers in the long run.

I see various reports from CTP2 about crashed savegames. Even after numerous patches. Activision was really quick to drop the support for CTP2 after the sales turned out to be very poor and that was the end of that.

Now I ask you: "Could that have happened with Freeciv?"

	24-12-2001 04:54									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

CtP2 -> No whining (fg excepted)
Civ3 -> plenty whining

Civ3 -> bugger all power. Easy to use
CtP2 -> MUCH power. Fairly easy to use
FreeCiv -> Complete power. Extensive programming knowledg needed for power to be useful.

Activision can drop as much supportas they want to drop. The modders won't.

	24-12-2001 06:12									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Thats not true Provost.

Quite clearly true, the game was nothing but a chore from beginning to end, I just couldn't be arsed to go back and play it again, that is if the save didn't mess up.

And Andy, I am not comparing CtP1 with 2 but CtP2 with Civ3

So I think I am justified in my conclusion. To me, it had no replay value, no 'one more turn' lure, the mechanics were incomprehensible. Bloody crap, and that is my final word on the matter

	26-12-2001 02:48									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Bloody crap, and that is my final word on the matter

That's not true Provost

	07-01-2002 15:10									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

IMHO, Civ3 looks better, but CTP2 IS better!

CTP2 is very customizable. The SLIC language is a powerful gift.

No script language in Civ3. Civ3 modders can change unit appearence, unit attributes, but not unit behaviour. CTP2 modders can do it!

If a Civ3 player want a new feature, he has to ask to Firaxis. A CTP2 player can implement it by himself or can ask to the modder community.

CTP2 is a better game!

	08-01-2002 19:06									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It blatantly is IW!!!

And I am not a modder, my concern is not with how the game can be messed around with but how good the game is. If the game is crap to begin with, I have no time for it. Civ3 is by far the better game!

	08-01-2002 20:41									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No no... you misunderstand.

quote: and that is my final word on the matter

That is not true You just added more words...

	08-01-2002 21:10									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Year Provost you are a out of the box player.

The real question is how good you can make a game, if you can't crack the *.exe and if you don't have the source code. It is possible to make the CTP2 AI very aggressive, you can even put it into suicide mode. If something is so costumizable it can't be crap. Now why should Civ3 a so much better game:

-No slic, obsolate tileimprovement building system depending on time wasting units
-Obsolate 8 bit 255 color graphics
-Obsolete hard drive space wasting graphics format
-No wonder videos
-Obviously cheating AI
-No stacked combat
-No ZOCs
-No German version available right now
-No scenarios

And that's only the stuff that I know so I can ask you why I should buy such a game for 45 €uros, if I allready the own the processor of Civilistion: Call To Power the civ3_project. So my conclusion there is no need to downgrade.

So long lives CTP2 the real Civ4.

-Martin

	09-01-2002 00:08									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm not some spotty computer nerd. How in the name of buggery should I know? I don't care, I just play the games, I don't don the anorak and get down to some hardcore cracking and coding

	09-01-2002 00:25									#22
	Why is IW making fun of my style? Remove this text

That's not true, Provost

	09-01-2002 17:01									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

One can be essentially assured that Yin26 prefers CTP2 to Civ3.

heck, Yin prefers the original CTP to Civ3!

Go Figure.

	09-01-2002 22:06									#24
	Got spare money?

That's not true, Father Beast...

Yin has actually no idea what a civ game has to be like so it is futile to even consider his opinion

	09-01-2002 23:03									#25
	cos its good Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thats not true Andy

	09-01-2002 23:15									#26
	that's not true Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

you have no idea of what is good and what isn't

	09-01-2002 23:29									#27
	pah Got spare money?

fine, your posting style is crap. I was copying it in an attempt at humour, which I obviously failed at.

	09-01-2002 23:55									#28
	How old are you, wimp? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

no need to get all touchy feely mooshi