22-12-2001 22:10									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie It seems quite ironic that a tough ex-military man gets all hissy and pissy because someone disses the military.

Actually, it had nothing to do with the military per se. Higgsy made his little remark about anyone who has been in the military.

So in your view, Higgsy can say what he wants, but Slowwhand can't say what he wants?

	22-12-2001 22:20									#32
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MtG, it has been an inoffical rule of this forum that Europeans are banend as annoying spammy trolls when they say what they think, because American posters have been quicker at complaining about other posters.

Now what did Higgsy say? I missed his relevant post...

	22-12-2001 23:20									#33
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I agree that Higgsy's comment was a bit much. I respect the job people volunteer to do when they join up. I don't, however, respect the attitude that some veterans appear to have regarding those who don't join up. (Not talking to you in particular, Slowwhand) The military's not, and shouldn't be for everybody.

You are absolutely correct, Krazy Horse.
Any time, I mean ANY TIME, I've suggested one should serve their country, I've pointed out alternatives to military.
By the same token, I'm fed up with little jerks who bad mouth those who ARE in the military.
Like it or not, it's best to have a military in place.

Let's look at the game of Civ.
You might build a farm. Irrigate. Mine, etc., but at some point if you don't have a military, you've made these improvements for someone else.
You know what I'm saying?

	22-12-2001 23:22									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Asher We've been through this with SlowwHand before. He's being kinda egocentric, but that's to be expected with Texans. He assumes what he believes in and what he's interested in should be what everyone else believes in, also. World doesn't work like that. I respect people no matter what they do (sorta). I respect garbage men, CEOs, military people, etc. I don't respect criminals (in the sense of real criminal activity, not stuff like smoking weed). That being said, the only military branch I was remotely interested in was the Air Force, but my eyesight kinda sucks. No air force for me, no military for me. That's fine though, I can contribute to my nation in other ways. Doesn't have to be through service like SlowwHand seems to think.

And Asher, you're one of the ignorant little poindexters I speak of in my tirade.
What keeps Canada safe? Let me tell you. Proximity to the United States.
Disagree all you want, because facts are facts.

	22-12-2001 23:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Dashi actually that's one of the main reasons I respect people like Slowwhand, Chris 62, MtG and Sikander. Because they have served. I respect them despite disagreeing with them on many issues. (that means I'll declare my disagreement but I will never offend them - be provocative to them)

And paiktis, you are a more than just an ok guy.
Whenever we've disagreed, at least you made me consider your point of view.

	22-12-2001 23:31									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Funny how you can pick one example and claim that represents "most" of nearly one million people.

I don't dispite that there is the possibility of some servicemen are in the US armed forces to protect their country.

Yet none of those who I know who are/were in the US armed forces see it that way.

	23-12-2001 00:43									#37
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quote: Let's look at the game of Civ. You might build a farm. Irrigate. Mine, etc., but at some point if you don't have a military, you've made these improvements for someone else. You know what I'm saying?

Exactly. This doesn't give a get out of jail free card to any military intervention people think is necessary, but it certainly demonstrates the absolute necessity of a society being prepared to defend itself.

	23-12-2001 00:49									#38
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I know a couple of people who have been in the military and I am happy to say to their face that it is a load of bollocks. Most of them, from my experience, look down on 'civvies' and they think that they are the ones protecting us.

It is infact us who are protecting them, by putting them into a mindless career and making them institutionalised so they can become a part of society.

Most of us know the types that go into the army, mindless thugs or those that want to run from something. I even had a mate that got a girl pregnant and said 'f*ck it... I'll join the army'

They all think it's a nice cushy little number, then they moan and whine when they get called to war, and the ones that don't just want to kill something. They seem to forget why the get that nice little income.

	23-12-2001 00:58									#39
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Oh, just shut up.

The military has its share of mindless thugs, just like the average construction site will.

	23-12-2001 01:03									#40
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand And Asher, you're one of the ignorant little poindexters I speak of in my tirade. What keeps Canada safe? Let me tell you. Proximity to the United States.

Actually, I think it's because nobody in their right mind would want to spend half their lives ass deep in snow.

	23-12-2001 01:04									#41
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quote: The military has its share of mindless thugs, just like the average construction site will.

Yes but working on a construction site isn't their a huge part of their lives.

	23-12-2001 01:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs I know a couple of people who have been in the military and I am happy to say to their face that it is a load of bollocks. Most of them, from my experience, look down on 'civvies' and they think that they are the ones protecting us. It is infact us who are protecting them, by putting them into a mindless career and making them institutionalised so they can become a part of society. Most of us know the types that go into the army, mindless thugs or those that want to run from something. I even had a mate that got a girl pregnant and said 'f*ck it... I'll join the army' They all think it's a nice cushy little number, then they moan and whine when they get called to war, and the ones that don't just want to kill something. They seem to forget why the get that nice little income.

That doesn't say much for your country's army then. We don't have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get people for ours. And you infer a lot from "I've known a couple of people"

	23-12-2001 01:09									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, I think it's because nobody in their right mind would want to spend half their lives ass deep in snow.

"I do not comprehend why a people would fight so hard for a land so entirely composed of ice and snow"-Unknown American Lieutenant during the War of 1812

	23-12-2001 01:12									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't dispite that there is the possibility of some servicemen are in the US armed forces to protect their country. Yet none of those who I know who are/were in the US armed forces see it that way.

REMFs, or combat arms people? When/how did they serve? You won't hear a bunch of people come out and say "we're here to protect the country" any more than you'll hear them point out the sky is blue. It's fundamental to the job. People will talk about working/living conditions, benefits, pay, chickenshit, etc. - all typical employment talk.

The number who pop up and say "Gee, now you mean you actually expect me to earn my pay?" is a real tiny (and heartily despised) minority - just the occasional sad sack who just kind of lip synched the oath he or she swore, without paying attention to it.

	23-12-2001 01:13									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs Yes but working on a construction site isn't their a huge part of their lives.

Yes it is, for ~60 hours a week during the season. That's more than half their waking hours spent on site. People identify with their jobs. It's a fact of life. Just because the military helps make certain choices easier doesn't mean it's a cop-out.

	23-12-2001 01:17									#46
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse "I do not comprehend why a people would fight so hard for a land so entirely composed of ice and snow"-Unknown American Lieutenant during the War of 1812

Yep, exactly. Now invading the tropics, that I can understand.

	23-12-2001 01:31									#47
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MtG threadjack somewhere else.

	23-12-2001 01:37									#48
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand And Asher, you're one of the ignorant little poindexters I speak of in my tirade. What keeps Canada safe? Let me tell you. Proximity to the United States. Disagree all you want, because facts are facts.

That's what I'm talking about.
I do have respect for the majority of people in the military, but unlike you, my respect is conditional. If that person in the military can't respect that the military isn't for everyone, and proceeds to call the people who don't want to join "ignorant little poindexters", that respect is lost. You're nothing but a troll hiding behind the guise of military service. Doesn't cut it, old man. Not one bit.

MtG, Chris62, et. al, now those are people I respect.

	23-12-2001 01:59									#49
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Since the thread title was aimed at me in a way, i would like to answer here.

First, what I resent is the childish and assine assumption on a lot of people that I or other serving/ex military personel look unfavoribly on those who chose not to do so.

I never said that, what I say is simply, if your unwilling, you have no right to mock or critize those who do. A subtle difference.

For people like Higgs, I say you need to get out more boy, because it's patently obvious your talking through your ass when you discuss the attitude of american military personel, and from my recollections British personel also.

The Napolenic wars are long over, nobody "takes the king's shilling" anymore. If your loser friend tried to escape responcibilty for a child by joining the army, he would be quite useless to them, goldbricks like that are a hindurance, not a help.

Form hearing several speak, and having watched Sloww be attacked more then a few times for his views, it is also obvious it is not him that is narrowminded, but in fact, it is the so called liberals and anti-military clique who have the problems. Whether it is jealousy at their own inability to take responcibility for their lives, or some misguided concept such as military personel are to blame for the world's problems, I can't say.

I can say this: Soldiers don't start wars, politians and rulers do.

You would all do well to bare that in mind, and quite a few of you do, but a very vocal minority don't, and it is this body that often envokes our ire in these and other threads.

Putting it plainly, if you don't know what your talking about, shut your trap, and when it comes to the military and it's personal, many of you know absolute zero.

Simple as that.

	23-12-2001 02:01									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs MtG threadjack somewhere else.

Bite me, honeybuns.

	23-12-2001 02:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, it had nothing to do with the military per se. Higgsy made his little remark about anyone who has been in the military.

So it was about people who make up a part of the military. Same difference, you know what I mean, blah blah blah, what a needless nitpick.

quote: So in your view, Higgsy can say what he wants, but Slowwhand can't say what he wants?

Higgsy can say what he wants, so can Slowwhand. I can say what I want too, including that something one of them said seemed strange, whilst not being obligated to comment upon the other person's comment at the same time. If you have a problem about this, please direct them to the nearest wall, thankyouveddymuch.

	23-12-2001 04:16									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I never said that, what I say is simply, if your unwilling, you have no right to mock or critize those who do. A subtle difference.

What about that er... thing... whatisit? Freedom of speech! Dat's da bunny.

quote: I can say this: Soldiers don't start wars, politians and rulers do. You would all do well to bare that in mind, and quite a few of you do, but a very vocal minority don't, and it is this body that often envokes our ire in these and other threads. Putting it plainly, if you don't know what your talking about, shut your trap, and when it comes to the military and it's personal, many of you know absolute zero. Simple as that.

	23-12-2001 04:18									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie So it was about people who make up a part of the military. Same difference, you know what I mean, blah blah blah, what a needless nitpick.

There's a not-so-subtle distinction between dissing the institution itself, (ignorantly or otherwise), and generally dissing anyone who's ever served in any capacity in it.

From personnel regs to chickenshit officers to needless bureaucracy, there are plenty of things that are criticizable about any military, and vets know them better than anyone.

That doesn't even relate to the notion that anyone who's ever served is essentially a ****up being coddled by the rest of society at large, or whatever Higgsy's supposed point is.

	23-12-2001 04:22									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's what I'm talking about. I do have respect for the majority of people in the military, but unlike you, my respect is conditional. If that person in the military can't respect that the military isn't for everyone, and proceeds to call the people who don't want to join "ignorant little poindexters", that respect is lost. You're nothing but a troll hiding behind the guise of military service. Doesn't cut it, old man. Not one bit.

Exactly. It's simply a bi-polar game of ignorance, and you're on one side of the spectrum. I'll give my respect when you can look at non-military society as more than "poin-dexters" and/or cowards.

	23-12-2001 04:31									#55
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quote: He assumes what he believes in and what he's interested in should be what everyone else believes in, also. World doesn't work like that.

Exactly! The world is his world... and anyone that has a difference of opinion is an idiot to him.

I respect people like MtG and Chris 62, but I respect people that haven't served like Asher, Supersneak, Che MUCH more than Slowwhand.

	23-12-2001 04:57									#56
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat There's a not-so-subtle distinction between dissing the institution itself, (ignorantly or otherwise), and generally dissing anyone who's ever served in any capacity in it. From personnel regs to chickenshit officers to needless bureaucracy, there are plenty of things that are criticizable about any military, and vets know them better than anyone. That doesn't even relate to the notion that anyone who's ever served is essentially a ****up being coddled by the rest of society at large, or whatever Higgsy's supposed point is.

OK. I was just being too lazy to distinguish between the two. But given that we know that , ugh, "Higgsy" was bashing the people in the military, you don't need to point out my misuse of the term military, as (I hope) we both know what I meant. My use of the term "military" was too vague, yes, but it has a context that we noth knew yes? Higgsy's point: "I know some ****ups in the army, therefore the military is only for ****ups", speaks for itself.

	23-12-2001 07:38									#57
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Wellington described his troops as the scum, the worst of humanity, theives and robbers

	23-12-2001 07:48									#58
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Oh, just shut up. The military has its share of mindless thugs, just like the average construction site will.

Damn, KrazyHorse. You're with the program.
All the military is, is a representative cross section of society.
All good guys? Of course not.
All war mongers? Certainly not.
No different than any other work place.
Loves, hates, and fears (yes, fears) just like any other cross section.
WTG, again.

	23-12-2001 07:51									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: He assumes what he believes in and what he's interested in should be what everyone else believes in, also. World doesn't work like that. Exactly! The world is his world... and anyone that has a difference of opinion is an idiot to him. I respect people like MtG and Chris 62, but I respect people that haven't served like Asher, Supersneak, Che MUCH more than Slowwhand.

Which is quite fine, Imran.
I respect almost anybody more than I respect you.