05-01-2002 04:25									#1
	Which Tribal Attributes Do You Prefer ? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I was boycotting buying, and I guess I still can; but I got Civ III for Christmas.

The titles says "Tribal", which shows how I think.
So which attributes, and why?

Last edited by SlowwHand on 05-01-2002 at 04:49

	05-01-2002 04:53									#2
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It has to be Industrious and *something*. The something can be commercial, military, scientific, or even expansionist. But if it is not Industrious, I just go nuts waiting for anything to get done. (When I was playing, that is)

	05-01-2002 04:58									#3
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I like having the scout that expansionists get, but seem settled, for now, on the German Militaristic/Scientific outlook.

Been wondering about you, cavebear.
Taking a sabbatical?

	05-01-2002 05:34									#4
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Militaristic is a must. And since i HATE inefficiency, i couple that with Commercial. That means Romans for me. Also i get their Legions which are IMO the BEST Ancient unit, assuming i have (easy) acces to Iron.

Militaristic; because otherwise the chances of getting a Leader are too small and i NEED leaders for various reasons. One of 'em is to get the Collosus, Copernicus, Newton and SETI in my capital regardless of production. Also, i want most Great Wonders of the Middle Ages, so assuming i don't have too much of a tech lead (and i usually don't) i need to have them installed quick.
Also Militaristic because i make it a policy to eventually capture ALL trade resources. That's because the AI offers horribly lousy deals. I want quid pro quo, but nooo they want my Gems AND Silk for their Spice. Well that's just not gonna happen! Doesn't their advisor tell them i'll probably be insulted by their ridiculous proposals? Do they even care? Anyway, unless they're willing to make a fair trade (and they never are), i go in and take it.
Which brings me to the next benefit of Militaristic; cheap Barracks and Walls (harbors too?). When i land on some hostile shore (always go for the resources nearest the coast) it helps if the City Walls and Barracks are cheap. Walls are practically free (10 shields) Always bring a cheap warrior or two to disband to pay for those extra expensive first shields. You know the enemy'll send everything they've got to get rid of you, so cheap Walls and Barracks are essential.

Commercial; because as i said, i HATE inefficiency. Also, early in the game when everything is difficult i need every cent i can get. If the tribe is not commercial, it's going to be even more difficult to get anything done. Also, later in the game, when the number of colonies starts to grow (and i don't mean those ridiculous worker colonies , i mean cities founded for the sole purpose of getting some resource) corruption increases. Being Commercial tones it down a bit and makes it reasonably workable.

Some other attributes i've found interestng, and i've tested them, but during all testing i've found either corruption to be too high or i could hardly get a leader. For example religious is quite handy, but i've found its benefits don't measure up to Militaristic or Commercial. Other attributes i find ridiculous. Like Industrious; extra fast workers? So what? Just capture more enemy workers. There's always at least two civs on my continent that i wipe out. Their razed cities supply all my worker needs. In the Industrial age you won't see a single Roman worker.

	05-01-2002 07:06									#5
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Religious is extremely powerful. Cheap temples (can be pop. rushed with 1 pop. immediately), cathedrals, etc. is great. And one turn anarchy allows you to switch between demo & commie as you go in and out of war. Without this advantage, you must be very careful about going to war in the industrial & modern ages. 6/7 turns of zero production is most undesirable.

	05-01-2002 12:33									#6
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I would think more credit should be given industrious than you feel willing, AkwaticDudeCity.
At the beginning of the game, workers productivity expanding your culture is great.
And even if you capture all your workers eventually, they still work faster.
I don't have a problem with that at all.

	05-01-2002 12:46									#7
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I find Commercial and Industrius very much to my liking.

Which means I'm French. Bah.

	05-01-2002 18:26									#8
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I can't play civ if I don't have Industrial

	05-01-2002 20:15									#9
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the ranking of the attributes depends on gameplay style and the difficulty level at which you play. If it is possible to speak generally I would choose religious as the one attribute I tend to favour at all levels. It helps with cultural assimilations in peaceful low level games, and helps you hold on to your own and captured cities on the higher levels where reversion and defection are _coughs_ otherwise quite prevalent. Militaristic is also very nice at higher levels, so bring on the Aztecs. At lower levels the Babylonians are my favourite, with Egyptians also nice

	05-01-2002 23:04									#10
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I started a game this morning and was going to try Chinese for their attributes, Monarch level.
But then I noticed that the description on screen didn't match manual. Must be covered in revision notes.
Expansionist is still pretty good early, with that scout zipping around uncovering the land.

	06-01-2002 01:10									#11
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Religious is probably the most important for me. Being able to switch between governments fast is a very handy feature, not to mention the powerful culture you can acquire fast by building those cheap temples.

Expansionist when used right kan be a very powerfull attribute .. just keep that scout looking for Goody Huts and gather in those extra techs and units right in the beginning when they are most valuable.

Right now I'm playing the Iroquis and whipping the ass of Germany and America

	06-01-2002 03:02									#12
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If you want culture, go for scientific, you get cheap libraries which gives you 3 culture insted of 2, and 50% science.
You've got to research literature first, but untill then, just keep on expanding. You also got cheap universities, which are 4 culture, the highest for any normal improvement.

	06-01-2002 04:37									#13
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I find that religous and commercial best suit my tastes, which means i'm mister ghandi. i play ghandi correctly, which means i crush my enemies beneath my sandaled feet, as anyone who has played against him in the past few games knows.

Purely from a UU point of view, i prefer the persians, their immortals are perfect for ancient age conquest.

	06-01-2002 05:09									#14
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I like the Indians too myself. The first time I tried them, I had let the computer decide at random for me. But wow. I played my first succesful game with them, and I think their UU rocks. You don't need horses OR iron, comes at a time I usually start my waring career, has the same defense as the pike-dudes, and (of course) is a two move unit, which makes them all the more likable. But I'll be trying some other civs out eventually.

	06-01-2002 06:18									#15
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I tend to like Militaristic society with anything. But I still like the Japs for their Samurai, I mean no nead to get those silly horses, and the are ideal for getting leaders by slaughtering warriors.
I don't particullarly like religous or expansionists.

	06-01-2002 06:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I would think more credit should be given industrious than you feel willing, AkwaticDudeCity. At the beginning of the game, workers productivity expanding your culture is great. And even if you capture all your workers eventually, they still work faster. I don't have a problem with that at all.

True, and initially, before i got the game, i had my mind set on Egyptians. But later i decided Industrious was just too weak an attribute to have it instead of Commercial or Militaristic or even Religious. The main reason i chose not to pick Industrious was because of the foreign workers that start coming late Ancient times. When the Industrial Era comes i have a surplus of foreign workers (counting at least six foreign workers per city and about twenty cities) And those foreigners come in large numbers because i usually don't install a new governor in foreign cities because the AI has bad city locations. I've never taken over more than five enemy cities in a game.

But it's like Dr Spike says

quote: the ranking of the attributes depends on gameplay style and the difficulty level at which you play.

With my way of playing i can hardly appreciate Industrious. By the way, do foreign workers working for Industrious civs also work extra fast?

	06-01-2002 07:19									#17
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i like the babalonians( religios and scientific). cheap cultural items are cool and the bowmen are almost unstopable in the early game. and only one turn of anarchy helps to

i find being scientific to help my money problems more than being comercial. with free advences once in a while and cheeper sci buildings i dont have t fund it as much, so i get extra money.

i HATE the expantionet atribute. a scout? so what. i'll just build a chariot or horsman. and lucrative barbarians???? big deal. barbarians are only good for free advances and attacking and promoting your units.

Last edited by zorbop on 06-01-2002 at 07:38

	06-01-2002 07:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by zorbop i like the babalonians( religios and scientific). cheap cultural items are cool and the bowmen are almost unstopable in the early game. the one turn revalution helps to.

Revaluation?? What da heck???

	06-01-2002 07:57									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Grrr Revaluation?? What da heck???

ROTFLMAO

	07-01-2002 00:02									#20
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Yeah, instead of spending ages in anarchy religious civs revalue quickly. Guess Argentina must not be that religious.

	07-01-2002 00:29									#21
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Mimicking some other poster, it has to be Scientific and something. Something is usually Militaristic or Religious, so Babylonians and Germans for me.
This is because my play style relies heavily on Culture. It is common that my outer rim cities are capture in war times, but the culture of my old cities keep bringing them back to me. And at the same time, I advance scientifically much faster then others and can get the best weapons at best speed.
Of course Commercial is very handy aswell, with the low corruption and all.

	07-01-2002 01:14									#22
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It seems I'm the first so far to vote for Russia (Exp/Sci). And I find that surprising, because I think Cossack is a great unit, and the tribal attributes are amazingly powerful when it comes to tech lead.
I enjoy Persia, Babylon and France too.

	07-01-2002 03:45									#23
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That "harumph" concerning scout is misguided.
Expansionist may not be your style, but starting with a scout at the first of game is nice.

	07-01-2002 05:25									#24
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Religious is a must for me because of the short revolutions and cheap religious buildings (for exapnding culture). I like scientific with that, so I usually play Babylonians, but I am compatible with Religious and anything, so I always play with a Religious civ.

	07-01-2002 05:51									#25
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Religious is the best for me. 2nd best is probably Commercial, then Scientific, followed by Industrious and Militaristic. Expansionistic is no good.
-- Roland

	07-01-2002 07:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Ehnström Expansionistic is no good.

I strongly disagree with you. Expanisonistic is very good. It can give you extra cash, an early tech lead, or extra settlers! Having expanisonistic means no barbarians will come out of huts. Having pottery is no prize, however.

	07-01-2002 08:54									#27
	Religious is BY FAR the strongest Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

There's already been a large and informative thread in the Strategy section:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...5925#post645925

Everybody knows Industrious and it's double-speed workers is extremely powerful, but once you really understand how the game works, Religious is by far the most powerful trait.

If there was multiplayer in Civ3, everybody would quickly see that proper exploitation of the advantages of Religious would win every time.

HALF-PRICE TEMPLES:
HUGE benefit. Temples are the first things you build. In the early game, say you've got a city making 3 shields. Half-price temples makes the difference between 15-turn temples and 30-turn temples. Nothing compares to that kind of boost. The only thing that would come close to that kind of benefit would be some sort of a "half-price wonders" ability, and cheap temples would still be arguably better at higher difficulties. Under despotism, your civ will be rushing temples with 1 population instead of 2, and happy/productive citizens aren't the only benefit -- everybody loves that edge on culture.

DYNAMIC GOVERNMENT:
Even if you don't take advantage of it, 1-turn anarchy is like having a few free techs and a few free units over the course of the game because of the extra production/science output. Most people, however, know that it is also very useful switching governments to avoid war-induced disorder.

FORCED LABOR:
This is where your dynamic government becomes ridiculously strong. In the mid-game, you can switch back to despotism and make 1-turn cathedrals (also half-price), and in the late game, when you've got big cities at their max population, you can switch back to despotism and make 1-turn universities or whatever.

Late-game despotism is something that isn't remotely practical with non-religious civs, and the benefits of it are far above any other trait. The only reason not to play a religious civ is because you think forced laber is too much of an exploit and refuse to use it.

If you want to play a simple game on an easy level, and you hate micro-management, maybe that would be a reason not to use religious. Switching governments, rushing things, going to war, etc... maybe that's just not your style. In that case, sitting back with the Greeks and your fortified Hoplites while you research your way to victory might be more fun.

	07-01-2002 17:22									#28
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Statements regarding certain attributes being no good aren't really that helpful; as always it depends on the game. If you play on the larger maps or with a single continent expansionist can be great. Also on higher levels where huts are very stingy being guaranteed no barbs is very useful. Having said that, in a default settings game I would have to agree that expansionist is relatively weaker.

	07-01-2002 21:57									#29
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I placed the data (as of 84 votes) in matrix, to see if I could get a sense of any trends.

Not surprisingly, Industrious is #1 with a commanding 54/84 choosing it as one trait. Commercial, Religious and Scientific are about equal at 27-34/84. Expansionist is dead last. But within these general trends I saw some correlations.
Industrious types were generally Commercial or Religious
Commercial types are usually industrious
Expansionist type prefer industrious, but there are very few data points from which to extrapolate.
Militaristic types prefer industious or commercial.
Religious types are industrious or scientific, rarely commercial. Hmmm.
Scientific type show a preference for religion ... double-Hmmm ... and nothing else.

I wish I could show the chart, but it looked mundo bad in the preview, so I bagged it.

	07-01-2002 22:16									#30
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My general rule is that I have to be either religious or scientific. The Babs are my favorites, the Egyptians are also good, so are the Persians and the Iroquois. In theory, the Indians and Greeks could be good too, but I've yet to have really good starts as either one of those. I have decided that religious is the #1 attribute. After that, I can see arguments for several different ones, especially varying depending on the type of map and difficulty level. Expansionist is crap on tiny -> normal maps, but apparently can really rock on large & huge worlds (which I don't play, b/c I don't have THAT much patience). Industrious is really nice, especially early on and during railroad building time. Commercial is an attribute I end up wishing I had once I've conquered a civ or two and am feeling the corruption. Militaristic is really the only one I could care less about.

-Arrian