06-01-2002 22:14									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni You can switch that off in your Security & Privacy permissions

Please tell me how. I beg of you. Everyone I've ever asked how to get rid of ICQ porn spam has told me to forget it.

	06-01-2002 22:48									#32
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Please tell me how. I beg of you. Everyone I've ever asked how to get rid of ICQ porn spam has told me to forget it.

OK, here goes:

Main -> Security & Privacy permissions -> Messages (that's under the Permissions header near the left bottom corner) -> there you tick the box which says "Do not accept World Wide Pager Messages"

Now you should not receive any porn-msgs anymore.

	07-01-2002 01:34									#33
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there's no such option there in the security & privacy thing, Z

	07-01-2002 02:23									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion there's no such option there in the security & privacy thing, Z

It's under Main, next to your status, fourth from the top.

	07-01-2002 02:27									#35
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In my version, its the tab called "ignore" rather than messages.

	07-01-2002 02:57									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm not American. Whoosh.

You're candian, they're worse
They're like Americans and French and Brits all together

quote: "Yeah, my instructor should be along any minute..."

"Swell, and only then can you board the plane"

quote: It wasn't nearby?

Well that's an important lesson to learn. Have armed helis all around.

quote: Right, and the lackluster public security at american airports are directly responsible for it. Completely unrelated to this topic.

Aha, and the fact that a 15 y/o can steal a plane and crash it into a building does not show the lack of security

quote: Part of what America values is freedom. They don't want to live in a military state like you, they want freedom. The chances of this happening are beyond remote, and hardly call for military-like security for all private airplanes.

Not military like, but SOME security.

What could prevent a terrorist saying "I have a class in a moment" hijacking a plane and crashing it?

quote: Small cessnas like this are totally useless, it only damaged 2 offices.

So it's ok to have them crash into buildings?

quote: And you're constantly under attack by the Natives.

They're mostly just as native as the jews
Most migrated here together with the jews.

You aren't attack by your natives since you killed most and then put them in reservations.

And the other natives are harmless being french and all

quote: They did contact the plane.

And then what?

quote: Shooting it down would be absurd, since they where likely trying to talk to him and give him directions. It'd be better taking a chance then to shoot him down and ensure that the plane is destroyed, aswell as making it go down in a fireball into the middle of a street or something. And not to mention the general absurdity of using missles on such a small plane.

But there comes a time when you have to take a decision of whether to try and talk him out, or it's too late, and one should save the people.

I agree that shooting him over a street could have been worse, but still, it's mainly luck no one else got hurt.

	07-01-2002 03:13									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov "Swell, and only then can you board the plane"

I don't think you have a clue what most municipal airports are like. They do not have armed guards protecting every cessna...

quote: Well that's an important lesson to learn. Have armed helis all around.

Actually, it turned out they scrambled F-15s. They didn't shoot anything down because they didn't know he was going to smash it into a building, and even if they did know at the last second, shooting the plane down over a crowded area is a pretty dumb idea. Rather smack it into a (fairly) abandoned building.

quote: Aha, and the fact that a 15 y/o can steal a plane and crash it into a building does not show the lack of security

'tard, this is not a commercial airport. They take off from little small airports, NOT commercial airports. Entirely different things.

quote: What could prevent a terrorist saying "I have a class in a moment" hijacking a plane and crashing it?

Nothing, but they might as well crash a Ford F-150, they're about the same size as Cessnas.

quote: So it's ok to have them crash into buildings?

You have to weigh some things into consideration here. Of course it's not okay for them to crash into small buildings, but it's also not okay to spend billions and billions of dollars on small airport security for something that's not a large threat. These planes can't be used as very effective terrorist devices at all.

	07-01-2002 03:40									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin I just have to say this: Only in America! Obviously shooting your fellow schoolmates isn't cool anymore amongst kids. Planes into high buildings is the way to go nowadays. I predict that the american 'Goth-trend amongst US trailer-trash/Ricky Lakes-guests will subside and all insecure teenagers will turn Muslim in yet another juvenile attempt to rebel against their parents.

Looks like you're right

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1746000/1746192.stm

So now there's going to be a spate of angsty highschool losers trying to grow a full beard and taking flying lessons .

	07-01-2002 04:50									#39
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IIRC, the two douchebags at Columbine (don't care to look up their names) talked about hijacking a plane and crashing it into a building...maybe even the WTC.

	07-01-2002 05:56									#40
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that's propably the unfunctional link ligth gave but here goes:

Cops: Teen Pilot Supported bin Laden

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/200...e_crash_31.html

	07-01-2002 06:53									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Still, I'd thought american's have learnt a lesson or two in making sure people who aren't supposed to get to dangerous things like planes, don't get into them.

I don't think this is a security problem. The kid was taking flying lessons, something he had done for the past three years. The instructor tells him to do a pre-flight check and then the instructor goes to check on some other students. At that point the kid decides to take off by himself. In hindsight, the instructor should not have gotten out of the plane, but it is not a strange or uncommon thing to do. Most of us have done a similar thing by getting out of car while a passenger sits inside.

As for shooting the aircraft down, I think the authorities took a calculated risk that the damage caused by a crash would be relatively limited and instead tried to talk the kid down. The incident happened after 5pm on a Saturday so the likelihood of people being in office buildings was low. A 172 isn't going to cause a lot of damage in a crash,

	07-01-2002 07:08									#42
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Now, does this make this an act of terrorism, or just one boy's sad misfortune?

Tough for me to say. He's 15, so I doubt he was concious of what he truely believed in. Still, he attempted to kill people and perhaps knock down a building in support of a terrorist mastermind. Tough call...

	07-01-2002 07:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Tough for me to say. He's 15, so I doubt he was concious of what he truely believed in. Still, he attempted to kill people and perhaps knock down a building in support of a terrorist mastermind. Tough call...

If he wanted to kill people, he wouldn't have crashed the plane into the office building after the time most people would have went home, on a SATURDAY.

It's just a suicidal kid who wanted to die in the public spotlight, is my guess.

	07-01-2002 10:41									#44
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Cnn is reporting that there was some semblance of a suicide note in addition to the, by now usual, pro Bin Laden support.

Flying a cesna into a building is more of a statement than anything else. Unless the guy was a complete moron he would've realised he could kill more people by driving a car into a crowded restaurant.
Bottom line: Some twit crashed a plane. End result: One lost light plane, a few thousand in damages to a building and one less nutcase. All in all a pretty fair trade IMO.

[Plenty more of all of these to go around in the US ]

	07-01-2002 13:20									#45
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Bottom line: Some twit crashed a plane. End result: One lost light plane, a few thousand in damages to a building and one less nutcase. All in all a pretty fair trade IMO. [Plenty more of all of these to go around in the US ]

There's actually a shortage of small a/c. Construction of these a/c stopped for years due to lawsuits making it prohibitive to sell build these aircraft. So it is a shame that a perfectly good Cessna has gone to waste.

And more seriously, it is a shame that this kid thought that suicide was an answer.

	07-01-2002 14:09									#46
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Siro,

You're mad. Shooting down a 15-year old flying a light plane? What'll you suggest next? Use anti-tank missiles on getaway cars?

	07-01-2002 16:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm not American. Whoosh.

I guess they aren't very hot on the geography lessons in Canada?

	07-01-2002 16:49									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Thue I guess they aren't very hot on the geography lessons in Canada?

Whatever you're talking about, I blame it on the years I was in an American public school.

	07-01-2002 18:34									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Thue I guess they aren't very hot on the geography lessons in Canada?

No, that would be the Americans(yanks, if you prefer), who think they are the only people who live in America.

	08-01-2002 00:40									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni OK, here goes: Main -> Security & Privacy permissions -> Messages (that's under the Permissions header near the left bottom corner) -> there you tick the box which says "Do not accept World Wide Pager Messages" Now you should not receive any porn-msgs anymore.

Doesn't work...
I have this and still recieve more spam than i used to

	08-01-2002 00:41									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Siro, You're mad. Shooting down a 15-year old flying a light plane? What'll you suggest next? Use anti-tank missiles on getaway cars?

getaway car -> risks civilians
airplane -> risks more civilians (assuming he has the sence to crash into crowded places)

I'm sorry, but I prefer to preserve the lives of innocent by standers rather than protect some crazy idiots.

	08-01-2002 00:47									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't think you have a clue what most municipal airports are like. They do not have armed guards protecting every cessna...

Which leaves it open for terrorists, criminals and nutty 15 year olds.

Ok, you weren't used to such violence before, time to change. If you won't, a smarter 15 y/o will do more damage.

quote: Actually, it turned out they scrambled F-15s. They didn't shoot anything down because they didn't know he was going to smash it into a building, and even if they did know at the last second, shooting the plane down over a crowded area is a pretty dumb idea. Rather smack it into a (fairly) abandoned building.

They didn't shoot down the 4 abducted airplanes on sept. 11 too, because they didn't know what they were up to.

However if they would have. the casualties would have been 10 times less.

quote: 'tard, this is not a commercial airport. They take off from little small airports, NOT commercial airports. Entirely different things.

So a terrorist can steal a cesna from a small airport, load it with explosives and then crash into a building.

quote: Nothing, but they might as well crash a Ford F-150, they're about the same size as Cessnas.

Well if Ford 150 were only available in Fordports, they should have been guarded too

quote: You have to weigh some things into consideration here. Of course it's not okay for them to crash into small buildings, but it's also not okay to spend billions and billions of dollars on small airport security for something that's not a large threat. These planes can't be used as very effective terrorist devices at all.

fine, we shall wait for the next time then.

	08-01-2002 01:08									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Which leaves it open for terrorists, criminals and nutty 15 year olds. Ok, you weren't used to such violence before, time to change. If you won't, a smarter 15 y/o will do more damage.

You are absolutely correct.
Military state for everyone.
We should also ID and log each time somebody buys backpacks, incase they use them for explosives later.
Perhaps we should also place armed guards with sub machine guns in public places like malls.
And install Anti-Aircraft turrets atop all skyscrapers.

quote: They didn't shoot down the 4 abducted airplanes on sept. 11 too, because they didn't know what they were up to. However if they would have. the casualties would have been 10 times less.

Again, everything's far easier in retrospect. It all happened so fast that your point is moot. Who would have guessed the airplanes would have intentionally smashed into buildings? Shooting down the airplane right away is a really, really dumb idea. Most of the time the airplanes aren't bombs.

quote: So a terrorist can steal a cesna from a small airport, load it with explosives and then crash into a building.

He can also steal a pickup truck, load it with explosives, and crash it into a building/marketplace. Do you suggest we place armed guards at all parking lots, and check ID and whatnot?

quote: Well if Ford 150 were only available in Fordports, they should have been guarded too

You obviously aren't aware of just how many small airports there are in North America.

	08-01-2002 02:44									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You are absolutely correct. Military state for everyone. We should also ID and log each time somebody buys backpacks, incase they use them for explosives later. Perhaps we should also place armed guards with sub machine guns in public places like malls. And install Anti-Aircraft turrets atop all skyscrapers.

Reminds me of my highschool days... ok, well not quite, but all of the stores would force you to leave your back packs outside, and there would be police patroling everywhere around the school, and always atleast one inside the school. Some of the stores in the area even hooked up security cameras to watch the outside of their store.

	08-01-2002 03:37									#55
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Osweld: When, where and why?

	08-01-2002 06:18									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You are absolutely correct. Military state for everyone. We should also ID and log each time somebody buys backpacks, incase they use them for explosives later. Perhaps we should also place armed guards with sub machine guns in public places like malls. And install Anti-Aircraft turrets atop all skyscrapers. [...]Most of the time the airplanes aren't bombs. [...]He can also steal a pickup truck, load it with explosives, and crash it into a building/marketplace. Do you suggest we place armed guards at all parking lots, and check ID and whatnot? You obviously aren't aware of just how many small airports there are in North America.

This policy was fine while you were not threatened by anyone.

However now you are a target for terror attacks so I'd expect you to treat possible dangers far more seriously. At least while terror is still live and kicking.

	08-01-2002 06:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov This policy was fine while you were not threatened by anyone.

You don't seem to understand the logistics of adding tight security, like you want, into the small airports in North America. There is minimal risk and maximum cost, it doesn't make sense.

quote: However now you are a target for terror attacks so I'd expect you to treat possible dangers far more seriously. At least while terror is still live and kicking.

I live in a geographically spread-out city in Canada.
Whew.

	08-01-2002 06:38									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Thue Osweld: When, where and why?

Guelph, Ontario. A few years ago, and because we where teenagers.

Actually, i can't say I blame them, alot of the students where drug addicts and punks in general, probably two thirds of the students did drugs of one sort or another - usually leaving the school and geting high in some parking lot ect... which the local store owners obviously did not like. Not to mention shoplifting...

There was a large fight nearly everyday - everyone would crowd around and not let the fighters away, or the principal / police in to break it up, these often took place in the surrounding property, aswell... and could get quite bloody in those incidents since there was no one to break it up.

In one instance, there was even a gang fight - not directly involving the school, but all of the poeple involved where students from the school. (I don't know the specifics of that, but I hear they found a bunch of weapons like chains, nun-chucks, bats, knives ect.. in one of the student's car)


You'd almost think I lived in the states... 'least we don't have guns here, though. (actually... in another school I went to there was an instance where someone brought a BB gun to school, saying it was a real gun - apparently he was trying to intimidate a gang that was after him for some reason)

	08-01-2002 09:03									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov getaway car -> risks civilians airplane -> risks more civilians (assuming he has the sence to crash into crowded places) I'm sorry, but I prefer to preserve the lives of innocent by standers rather than protect some crazy idiots.

The US does have to keep some perspective here. A cesna that masses less than a car and which doesn't have much more speed has orders of magnitude less kinetic energy (and hence killing potential) than a 500-odd ton Airliner with a full fuel load flying at several hundred knots. While the cesna could have been used as a lethal weapon it would hardly have been to a large enough degree to warrant shooting it down, possibly causing proportional casualties anyway.
In any case it seems the scrambled F-15's weren't in position to intercept until after the crash.

	08-01-2002 23:50									#60
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and from what I can tell, this thing didn't even explode. It didn't do a whole lot of damage.

The only thing we need to watch for on small planes, is cropdusters and the like for biological/chemical weapons. But even then, modifications need to be made in order to get the right sized particles spread accross the city. Or what has been pointed out, loading the plane with explosives.

But the plane itself poses little threat, and doesn't warrant additional security. We just need to keep an eye on the cropdusters.