08-01-2002 13:10									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: These types of threads are similar to watching starving rats eat each other. Entertaining at first, but it quickly degenerates into distgusting boredom.

Then take the moral high ground and tell us how much better you are, and that you would NEVER insult someone just for their opinions!


I really love you all, though!

So entertaining!

Where's the "wink" smiley when you need one?

	08-01-2002 13:15									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Whoops.

What about the embarrassed one.

No, no, I found it.

	08-01-2002 14:08									#34
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My hope was that this thread would be a peace offering to Firaxis, a hatchet burying experience where those of us who have complained (and we are NOT a few; we are legion) can open our minds and allow Firaxis to answer the unanswered questions and shine some light on our rampant ignorance and speculation about what they might or might not be considering for a patch.

Again, I cannot believe that Firaxians, if they will simply think about it a moment, will conclude that their policy of absolute silence is any improvement over their policy of overreaching promises. If you disagree, please explain how losing fans like Helio, me, and many others is an improvement over enduring a bit of message board flak.

We aren't asking that they announce what they will do, but merely what they are considering doing. If there is positively no intention whatsoever to implement group movement, proximinate unit activation sequencing, optional nags, and other late-game issues — then Firaxis could save itself a lot of grief. I, for one, would be on my merry way and would shut up. That would leave Diamonds, JBrians, and others who could fill the boards with endless gushing about the smart governors and eye candy.

	08-01-2002 14:20									#35
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They might all be on holiday, steeling themselves for the mammoth task of Apolyton forum catch-up reading they need to do soon.

You have shamed me, Lib, into apologizing for my trivial posts in your serious thread.

I blame the comedy of the other threads - and I thought nothing could cheer me up today!

I do support and applaud your above stated intention though.

	08-01-2002 14:25									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh, I don't begrudge a bit of levity. Every drama needs some comic relief. I just don't want a flame-fest to erupt when there might be the potential for mutual edification between Firaxis and many key players.

We'll see.

	08-01-2002 14:49									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Colour me a clown then.

I don't think I'm the flame-eating sort though.

More's the pity, eh?

	08-01-2002 15:08									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

Lib

I agree that Firaxis's policy of saying absolutely nothing is a mistake. Hello, Firaxis, I'm not on your kill lists am I?

I just don't think that they are going to change their policy within the life of a single thread. Face it, they have faced some rough going around here lately. Give them some time to conclude that their bunker is no longer necessary.

I advise patience. The game will improve. Hopefully it will become something that all of the detractors will come to love. Hoy, that would be some game!

Salve

	08-01-2002 15:13									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Fair enough.

I've given them not only time, but a second chance as well. I've come to the half-way point and called out to them. It is the limit of what I can do.

	08-01-2002 15:50									#40
	Now I've gone too far... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Mrs. Meier: Do you like my new negligee, ummm... I, mean, scenario editor?

Libertarian: You are like a dream...

Mr Meier: What's going on here?!?

Libertarian: Umm... Nothing... We were discussing stacked movement, I swear...

Mr Meier: Oh sure, you think I can't tell what's going on here!

Yin26: [hanging out the window] You bastard, Lib, I hated this game more than you eons ago!

Mrs. Meier: I'm sure my name will now be mud on the Apolyton boards, and it's all your fault, Sid. Why couldn't you have beta-tested?

Dan Magahahahaha: I advise all parties to remain silent until we have nothing to confirm or deny.

Mr. Meier: That's it, I'm pulling the plug on this project. The community is getting a bit too WEIRD.

MarkG: Don't blame us! Blame Alexander the Great! And he's Macedonian, which really isn't Greek.

Some Greek Guy: Yes it is!

Another Greek Guy: No he isn't, and that darned pointy sun flag better not be recognized by the European Union either.

Scientist: Geez guys, I gotta stop posting to these boards when I get intoxicated.

Audience: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Jeff Morris: Fortunately, I'm ignoring this discussion, so the game still doesn't suck.

Mr. Meier: You idiot, that was no discussion, that was my wife!

Audience: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Scientist: Buuuurrrrpppp!

MarkG: This is getting out of hand. Pull the plug on this disaster!!!

Audience: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

	08-01-2002 15:54									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Infogrames: [...snicker...]

	08-01-2002 15:54									#42
	Put an end to popups!

Huh?

I didn't get quite ALL off that, but that means it must be good.

/standing ovation/

/Mexican Wave/

	08-01-2002 16:18									#43
	: ) Full PM-box? Change here!

Scientist: Thank you, thank you. And on behalf of the Academy for giving me this award, I would just like to say that NONE OF THIS EVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF TSDGAEHQETHEWRGEWrgqer qwegQERG qewrgQERG YIOLTUIawrRYUIL aeHGRETH SRHWRTHaerg.

Bartender: Cut that guy off already!

The State Of New York: We cut him off two hours ago.

Fan-Boy: CivVVVV THR33333 RRRRR000000XXXXXXX!!!!!!

Scientist: Buurrrrppppp!

Audience: Ha Ha Ha Ha hA ha jS Hs Hw He Re Eh Ah Agh!!!

Everyone: Now I understand that whole signal to noise idea.

Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu Pere Ubu

Mr Meier: And they said *I* was flogging a dead horse with Civ III, what about this post by Scientist?

Audience: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

	08-01-2002 16:19									#44
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Infogrames: [...snicker...]

	08-01-2002 23:54									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian With respect to the points made about my vocabulary, I'm afraid you're stuck with me there. This is how I speak and how I write. Changing this attribute would be too difficult. I cannot write if I must be conscious of morphing what I'm thinking into some alternate syntax.

"Changing this attribute would be too difficult."

But so many expect Firaxis to be able to change Civ3 attributes without any trouble at all. I would think it would be easier for a thinking being to change than to make a machine emulate a human, including the ability to change.

	09-01-2002 00:06									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The machine is doing merely what it is told.

	09-01-2002 00:19									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian The machine is doing merely what it is told.

Exactly right. It's amazing that a deterministic device can simulate human behavior to any degree whatsoever, as humans, markets, nations and history are so unpredictable.

Civ3 is an amazing game!

	09-01-2002 00:26									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've said often that I think Soren did a good job with the AI. My opinion on that has never changed.

However, there is more to such a game than its algorithms. If the interface of your browser were like the interface of Civ3, you'd have to type and submit your posts one letter at a time.

	09-01-2002 00:54									#49
	If I were Firaxis... Increase Your PM Length

If I were Firaxis or Dan/Soren/etc, I would ask each major forum/website (like CivFanatics and this one, I'm not sure how many others there are) to appoint ONE person to submit questions. They could choose questions by voting or something more sophisticated like the 'modding-up' that is done on slashdot when picking the top 10 questions for an interview. They could choose their representative this way, too (or the web site owner/administrator could make an executive decision). I would then ONLY take questions from this one person, maybe three questions once a week, or 5-10 questions once a month or something like that, and do my best to give people some helpful information without making any specific promises or raising expectations any higher than they already are. If the forum members keep wanting to ask the same questions every week, I would just keep answering "I don't know" or "stay tuned" until they decided to try asking some other questions that I WAS able to answer (at least partially). If they wanted to ask me my own opinions about possible changes or design decisions made, I would answer while clearly stating these are my opinions and are not in any way to be construed as a promise of what will be in the next (or any) patch/update. I personally cannot keep up with this forum and I can't imagine that the folks at Firaxis can do so while still trying to work (hopefully including work on a 2nd patch). The only way to maintain my sanity and still keep some amount of communication open with users and fans would be through a mediator as suggested above. This would give each forum some sense of appreciation from Firaxis since it is more targeted than the Q&A occasionally posted on the civ3.com site, while freeing the developers and other at Firaxis to actually do their jobs.

	09-01-2002 03:37									#50
	Suffering from ads?

I dont even play the stupid game anymore.I just come here every once in a while to check for a patch for stacked movement and/or an editor that allows me to make a WW2 scenario.
until these two problems are fixed I see no reason to play a game with almost NO replay value.
I actually bought Empire Earth to try to satisfy my Empire building urge.Mistake.There is no such thing as real-time STRATEGY.

As for Libs original post-
Keep plugging away everyone --maybe sooner or later the developers will pull their collective heads out of the sand and deliver what we want.

	09-01-2002 03:49									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What about Europa Universalis, Eric?

	09-01-2002 04:06									#52
	Put an end to popups!

I have EU 1 and am contemplating EU2 but the sequel seems like more of the same.Perhaps you can change my mind Setsuna?

	09-01-2002 04:18									#53
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quote: Originally posted by The Eliminator Entertaining at first, but it quickly degenerates into distgusting boredom.

That was the most concise Civ3 review I've ever read. Congrats.

Venger

	09-01-2002 04:24									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm, I don't really think I've played enough of the game to give an educated opinion just yet. You're better off asking at the EU2 boards.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/f...p?s=&forumid=51

Furthermore I haven't played the original game and as such can't really weigh in the improvements the sequel has. It is my understanding that the second game is relatively the same, albeit with some major improvements.

Civ3 seems like such a.. child's game after playing EU2.

	09-01-2002 05:02									#55
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Venger That was the most concise Civ3 review I've ever read. Congrats.

Venger, I think that was a review of this thread, not the game.

	09-01-2002 06:05									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Au contraire, it was a PERFECT review of the game...

Venger
P.S. I know what he was reviewing...

	09-01-2002 06:53									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: paraphrased from yin26 "it quickly degenerates into disgusting boredom" Well, then it's on-topic for Civ3 discussion!

*DING DING*...
...and the undisputed speaker of truth...
...by unanimous decision...
!! YIN !!

	09-01-2002 06:54									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Libertarian We aren't asking that they announce what they will do, but merely what they are considering doing. If there is positively no intention whatsoever to implement group movement, proximinate unit activation sequencing, optional nags, and other late-game issues — then Firaxis could save itself a lot of grief. I, for one, would be on my merry way and would shut up. That would leave Diamonds, JBrians, and others who could fill the boards with endless gushing about the smart governors and eye candy.

What the hell would be the point of telling people what they MIGHT do other than generating higher expectations? Even for features that they are working on RIGHT NOW they may get cut if they turn out to be too hard for one reason or another. If you knew half as much about software development as you claim to, you would know that the feature that

quote: If you disagree, please explain how losing fans like Helio, me, and many others is an improvement over enduring a bit of message board flak.

There is no point in trying to please agitated 13 year-old kids. There are people like you for every game, and you will not be happy for any length of time no matter what they do. In fact, you stated that you WERE satisfied after Dan finally said that they knew late-game tedium was an issue and weren't sure whether or not they would be able to work on it. Yet 2 days later you could no longer stand not having your voice heard.

Ultimately your goal is to get as much personal attention as possible from Firaxis employees and feel like you are a part of the game development process because you cannot break into the industry on your own merits.

	09-01-2002 07:11									#59
	Increase Your PM Length

Told.

	09-01-2002 12:45									#60
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: What the hell would be the point of telling people what they MIGHT do other than generating higher expectations?

The hell point would be to salvage some customers. We already know that they MIGHT do anything (or nothing) under the sun. Do you believe the zipped-lip tactic has quieted expectations?

quote: There is no point in trying to please agitated 13 year-old kids.

Tu quoque.

quote: In fact, you stated that you WERE satisfied after Dan finally said that they knew late-game tedium was an issue and weren't sure whether or not they would be able to work on it. Yet 2 days later you could no longer stand not having your voice heard.

Mendacious. Satisfaction with Dan's response does not imply satisfaction with the status quo.

quote: Ultimately your goal is to get as much personal attention as possible from Firaxis employees and feel like you are a part of the game development process because you cannot break into the industry on your own merits.

What a troll.

And what is your ultimate goal, oh Chihuahua? To get as much personal attention as possible from me and feel like you are a part of the debating process because you cannot muster rhetorical skills on your own merit?