07-01-2002 19:50									#1
	A quick rant Remove this text

First rant ever, woohoo!

Ok, whacking Rome (or any other civ's capitol) in 3000bc should give me an ADVANTAGE. It should be a daring move that could badly hurt you, but should pay off nicely if you pull it off.

The problem: I sent 4 or 5 warriors to attack Rome. I took it in 3000bc. GREAT, I think. Wrong. Rome (the Civ, not the city) isn't dead. I'm figuring - ok, Veii must be nearby, and send my warriors charging onward. Maybe 30 turns later, having found two other civs, but not the Romans, I see a stack of 2 spearmen and 2 archers advancing on Rome from the south. I manage to kill one of the archers before they get to Rome (warrior defending on mountain) and I have a spearman and warrior in Rome. Their archer kills my spearman w/o taking damage (Rome was on a hill and both the AI and I got some wierd combat results), and I end up losing Rome... which I took back a few turns later. Meanwhile I'm STILL searching for Rome's empire. I finally find it I KID YOU NOT 30+ squares south of Rome. They've now got 3 cities and are 5 techs up on me.

Now, the way I figure it, AI civs should respawn as a different civilization. In other words, the Romans should have become the Babylonians (also red). Instead, they stayed Roman, stayed at war with me, and got the bonuses for respawning (clearly, if you start 1000yrs in, you should get a bonus start-up tech or two and units). So now, instead of having an advantage, I'm at war with a stronger foe.

I retired so I could see the replay. It was clearly a respawn, since the message read: Rome captured 3000bc, Veii founded 3000bc (again, 30+ squares away). Man, was I pissed off. I'm sorry if this has been ranted about before, I searched and didn't find a thread. I'm done.

-Arrian

p.s. Ok, I suppose that wasn't exactly "quick"

	07-01-2002 20:47									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's possible that at the time that you destroyed Rome, the Romans had a settler out and about. AFAIAA, if a civ still has a settler, they're not dead yet.

	07-01-2002 21:08									#3
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If you saw the replay, you would understand. There is NO WAY they actually founded the city of Veii. It was founded the same turn Rome was taken, 30+ squares to the south... on the opposite side of the continent, in other words. If they had a settler, then it was miraculously teleported. But that doesn't explain the sudden tech advantage they didn't have 1 turn before and the shocking speed (again, watching replay) with which they built their next city. It had to be a "respawn"

-Arrian

	07-01-2002 23:56									#4
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I've done this. I think the war stopped when they respawned.

If it didn't you could use diplomacy to end it.

It usually is a very big advantage to pick off a civ early, Unless you want to pursue a vassal strategy. You get alot more land available to you.

Salve

	08-01-2002 01:09									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That's what I thought. Not in this case. After I took Rome, they still wouldn't sign a peace treaty (they wanted something extra, because of the free units they got, they were actually stronger than I was). Later, they were willing to sign a peace treaty, but I was so pissed I kept fighting.

Anyway, it's no big deal, but I think it should be different. The Romans should have been destroyed, and a new civ should have spawned with no memory of my Roman war. I would hazard a guess that Firaxis made it the way it is to hamper the *really* early rush.

-Arrian