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Transcend
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Boulder, Colorado, USA
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
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The Euros are responsible for the destruction of Native Americans. Remember, the mass immigration to the US happened during the 19th century, the same time during which Natives were annihilated. Also, it was the settlers, rather than the army, who destroyed the natives.
To say Spaniards did not destroy civilizations is a complete joke, can anyone remember what happened to the Aztec capital Tenochtitlan? If there is any country who needs to demand reparations from Spain, it's Mexico.
Again, all 'great' civilizations today have committed major crimes in their past. Is there a 'great' civilization who hasn't done anything bad?
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Faeelin
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Tau Ceti
Oct 2001
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominikos
SlowwHand, you are more than welcome to think what you like about me, but America's foreign policy and presence is not particularily welcomed in most countries. When you have gone to the point of calling me an idiot, then at least have the courtesy of telling me why, otherwise your comments don't make any sense.
Americans are modern day Romans, and America, just like the Roman Empire, looks good in appearance but is permeated with rot and decay.
On a sidenote, you know, whenever one drives across the border from Canada into the United States, it so obvious that the urban landscape changes from clean to dirty.
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~Emperor Dominik~
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So you're saying America's foreign policies are equal to nazi germany, the rape of nanking, the destruction of gaul and carthage, the forced conversion of native americans and the destruction of their culture as well as the inquisition, and the soviet union's oppression of eastern europe?
Oh, and about modern day rome: I've heard the analogy before. We don't have leaders putting their horses in senate, so we're okay.
Also, I'm suprised you can still believe that arguement after recent events.
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Lars-E
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Dominikos I disagree with you.
The Soviet Union or the Communist world is the obvious choice IMO. That is if you don't get nitpicky about semantics..What is cruel etc.
If not killing a lot of ppl - far more than the nazis or anyone else - is cruel then what is? I wonder....Or do you prefer the term terrible?? Or what???
Here are the hard facts:
U.S.S.R.: 20 mill deaths
China: 65 mill
Vietnam: 1 mill
North Korea: 2 mill
Cambodia: 2 mill
Eastern Europe: 1 mill
Latin America: 150 tho
Africa: 1,7 mill
Afghanistan: 1,5 mill
The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10 tho
The total approaches 100 million killed.
Read the classic "The Black Book of Communism" several authors (1997) which has been much debated in Europe, especially in France. You can get an English version thru Harvard University press.
The above mentioned book which is written by young historians living in France is partially based on newly opened - 1990s - Soviet archives.
It should be a must for Communists to read. Takes the halo off Lenin and other leaders. Lenin signed orders to kill lots of ppl. It'st there with his signature on it. Here's one example:
A telegram to the Central Executive Committee of the Penza soviet:
Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity. The interests of the whole revolution demand such actions, for the final struggle with the kulaks has now begun. You must make an example of these people. (1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloosuckers. (2) Publish their names. (3) Seize all their grain. (4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram. Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so. Reply saying you have received and carried out these instructions. Yours, Lenin.
P.S. Find tougher people
RTsKhIDNI, 2/1/6/898.
A kulak could be anyone who had just a tad more property, cows etc than the average. And I mean tad. An extra house and extra cow could do you in.
Other orders Lenin signed include taking away ration cards (bread) from a vast number of people. Including ordinary workers who were disgruntled. Famine was used as a political instrument for massmurder.
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bogi
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No doubt about it Germany. Produced the most wars in history.
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- Groucho -
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominikos
On a sidenote, you know, whenever one drives across the border from Canada into the United States, it so obvious that the urban landscape changes from clean to dirty.
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Hey, I'm a Canadian who lives in the US and that comparison is unfair. Most of the Canadian population lives within spitting distance of the American border so it makes sense that the roads in that area are well kept up. But for the US, the Northern border is the hinterland (sorry, Buffalo).
To give you a counter-point, just outside of New York heading up into Connecticut is the Merritt Parkway. It is one of the most beautiful stretches of road I've ever driven on and it beats anything I've seen in Canada. The overpasses were designed by Frederick Law Olmstead (of Central Park fame) and the landscape with the rolling hills and deciduous forests is incredible.
Your main point is blatantly ridiculous. Sure the US is a bully sometimes and has done some pretty nasty things (recuerda Allende!), but it is also the home of the Peace Corps. On the whole, the US definitely tips the scale toward more good than bad and it isn't even close to historical great satan status. If it were, Khandahar would have been nuked and you would be "disappeared" if you ever tried to enter the US because of your postings here (not that the Internet would even exist in its present form if the US were the "Great Satan").
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:17
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I'd say that the Mongols easily win. A single, relatively small civilization managed to utterly destroy many of the most populous cities in the world. I've heard body counts attributed to the Mongols, during their period of dominance, on the order of 4*10^7, truly an atrocious number considering the technological sophistication and population densities for Mongols of time period.
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In Mongol controlled lands, the roads were patrolled agaist brigands, and trade was permitted. |
And in Soviet controlled lands, subsidies were sent around the empire, bolstering the industry of these vassal states. Does that justify Soviet conquest and rule?
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built their cities over the ruins of Carthaginians ones. |
Like Mexico City?
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The Spanish had this obsession for converting people to Christianism, but at least they were never obsessed with exterminating them because they had been their enemies! |
Like in Hispaniola, where a population somewhere between 3*10^5 and 3*10^6 was completely eliminated in about 60 years? Of course, their reason for exterminating the natives was soley because they were greedy bastards.
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10-01-2002 01:17
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