09-01-2002 07:02									#1
	Who's the Greatest Satan? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So, taking history into account, which empire do you think has been the most ruthless, oppresive, domminant, imperialist, ect...

	09-01-2002 07:12									#2
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Me

Jon Miller

	09-01-2002 07:13									#3
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hmmm I thought you were talking Marlowe vs Biblical vs etc?

	09-01-2002 07:13									#4
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If this poll is going to have an ounce of serouisness...people will vote Soviet Union. They were, without a doubt. The cruelest butchers who ever walked the earth on the list above.

Some 40 million ethnic peoples and there own, were killed during only 90 years of rule

	09-01-2002 07:16									#5
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OHOHOHOHO! This is so tempting. soooooooo tempting!!! You're spoiling me Osweld

I choose two. Let your imagination run wild

	09-01-2002 07:17									#6
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Spain. 1492-1860s, Spain's rule of the New World was a period of naked hypocrisy, rape, enslavement, injustice, and massacre in the name of God and undisguised avarice and bigotry.
It wasn't even efficient.

!Viva Bolivar!

	09-01-2002 07:22									#7
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quote: If this poll is going to have an ounce of serouisness...people will vote Soviet Union. They were, without a doubt. The cruelest butchers who ever walked the earth on the list above.

Uh... no... the cruelest butchers on the list above are (without a doubt) the Mongols! At least the Soviets cared a little for the culture of the areas they conquered instead of razing it all to the ground.

	09-01-2002 07:26									#8
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Whilst that is true. The Soveits by far were the worst. Soviet troops killed almost a million of there own troops during world war 2

In the early years of 41, 42, and 43 they would have 2 lines of defense. One was the official defense line. The other was so there own troops wouldnt retreat. When Stalin ordered you to not retreat . You had better not retreat

And many Russian soldiers will testify to what happened when people fell back, and were ordered to not retreat. They were mowed down bye the secondary lines.

Thats how evil the USSR was

	09-01-2002 07:26									#9
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I'm the first one to vote for the US

how about that

hey I'm just going by what I've been told

	09-01-2002 07:29									#10
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	09-01-2002 07:37									#11
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quote: If this poll is going to have an ounce of serouisness...people will vote Soviet Union. They were, without a doubt. The cruelest butchers who ever walked the earth on the list above. Some 40 million ethnic peoples and there own, were killed during only 90 years of rule

I'm not sure as to whether anyone will agree with me on this, but I don't think that one can measure the cruelty of an empire by the amount of people killed under its domination. Cruelty is cruelty, and those who are subjected to it die the same. Perhaps more people may have been involved during the slaughters in the Soviet Union, but the cost of losing great numbers of people was just as devastating to the Jews or Native Americans (North and South) as it was to the people dominated under the Soviet Union.

Empires are cruel to those who refuse to bow to their policies and laws.

It is silly to measure cruelty based on the number of people killed.

If anyone agrees or disagrees, please let me know.

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	09-01-2002 07:43									#12
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quote: Thats how evil the USSR was

The Mongols were worse. They destroyed civilizations by raping and plunder. They were a nomadic people and didn't think much of cities it seems by what they did to those they captured.

	09-01-2002 07:56									#13
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That's right Imran, but the Mongols were later turned into city builders. China was greatly responsible for the Mongols being turned into builders of cities, after the collapse of the Sung dynasty in 1279.

Complete barbarism under the Mongols was not exactly the case. For example, the pax mongolica prevailing over an immense area facilitated the marked increase of foreign trade. This was, however, almost entirely in foreign hands, mostly those of Moslem merchants in central Asia.

It is also important to note that the Mongols were assimilated in many areas they conquered. This is especially true of the Middle East and China.

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	09-01-2002 08:06									#14
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I'll admit, the Soviets weren't sutble in their tactics.

Didn't the Mongols destroy the great library at Bagdad by throwing so many books into the river that the waters ran the colour of ink?

Or was this something I dreamt about and has no relation to reality in any way....

	09-01-2002 08:12									#15
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You dream thing and think they are real? NO!

Anyway, I don't know... have to research I guess if that was true.

	09-01-2002 08:12									#16
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Tell me:

How, exactly, could you come up with this poll and NOT offer the Nazis? Or Red China? The Crusaders?

	09-01-2002 08:15									#17
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and what's with the vikings? Sure they attacked cities and villages. But that doesn't make themt that bad. Surely not worse than nazi Germany.

I think we also need to judge by the scope of time the evil acts were in. Nazi Germany while produced many deaths, was in a very narrow period of time compared to say The spanish in the new world.

	09-01-2002 08:16									#18
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Maoist China was a big oversight from the choices, as was nazi Germany.

I voted for US - only because I know most of you wouldn't have it any other way

Hitler's Germany closely followed by Stalin's Russia would be my picks.

But the British and Roman empires deserve honourable mention for appearing to civilise while being rotten to the core.

	09-01-2002 08:18									#19
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Let's see


according to Bin Laden and other militants it is the
United States of America

according to USA,Turkey and most of eastern Europe it is the
Soviet Union

according to noone because noone cares anymore it is the
British Empire

according to native americans it was (they basically have been killed off by now)
Spain

according to Greeks,Armenians,Serbians,Bulgarians,Syrians, Cypriotes, Russians etc it was/is
Ottoman Turks

according to noone it is:
Vikings

according to all the people they conquered it was:
Mongols


according to? Jews? - Asterix it was
Roman Empire

	09-01-2002 08:18									#20
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How do the Americans get such marks?

Some one tell me please...I need enlightenment of the methods

	09-01-2002 08:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Maoist China was a big oversight from the choices, as was nazi Germany.

I thought about china, but I don't really know much about it's history or what it's done, and I was more looking for expansionist or imperialist countries, anyways. And, I figured that nazi germany was a bit too brief a period to be put against such long lasting empires (not to mention succesful empires - which nazi germany was not).

Maybe I should of added France though, but I don't think that they are really comparable to Britain and Spain of the same period.



Anyways, my vote goes to Spain. I think every past, present, and future tyrant would be impressed at the savage arrogance they possesed during the colonization of the americas, and the inquisition.

	09-01-2002 08:40									#22
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The Great Library was in Alexandra, and was burnt to the ground bye Julius Caesar in 57 A.D. The knowledge lost in the library (millions of anceint documents about millions, lost peoples, technologys...etc)

They say it set man back, scientifically by about 200 years.

The library supposedly had things about civilizations and patents, we never even knew existed

	09-01-2002 08:46									#23
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Alexandria got burnt too? Craaaaaaaaaaaaap.
*throws away his papyrus Library of Alexandria card*

I found some links on the net.....the Mongols did sweep into Bagdad and destroy it's library.

	09-01-2002 08:51									#24
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Ya, ask any philosper/historian/scientist about the Great library in Alexandria and they will cry.


It was the first time man came together and put all his common knowledge, history, and scrolls under one roof. Lost civilizations, everything.....

it is sad it was burned to down

	09-01-2002 08:57									#25
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What's this I hear? Lost Civilizations? Lost knowledge? Aliens from Mars?

I smell Erich von Daniken in my coffee!

Would anyone like a Lost Continent of Atlantis cookie?
------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	09-01-2002 09:02									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Dominikos What's this I hear? Lost Civilizations? Lost knowledge? Aliens from Mars?

Umm? Do you think Im kidding?

That library contain everything about the first 3000 years of civilization. People traveled from China on foot, just to put there scrolls and histrorical text in there.

	09-01-2002 09:05									#27
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quote: The Great Library was in Alexandra, and was burnt to the ground bye Julius Caesar in 57 A.D.

Not bad for a guy who'd been dead for a hundred years...

	09-01-2002 09:08									#28
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Sorry, did I mean 57 B.C.? Ya, thats what I meant

	09-01-2002 09:10									#29
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Damn - you beat me to it Clem

Did Caesar really do that? I thought it accidentally caught fire.

	09-01-2002 09:10									#30
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I see that someone recently either watched the discovery channel or read a book.

Jon Miller