10-01-2002 01:33									#1
	Just what CAN you do on a Volcano? Support Apolyton

Talk about feeling the Earth move what about on Planet?

Just for the record, the Volcano has a central tile, which is a special special place (I'm calling it the top) and the 6 surrounding tiles (I'm calling them the sides) which are only just special. All 7 of these tiles come with the designation "Volcano" in addition to whatever terrain they have, which is often "rocky" and/or "arid", but can definitely be other things as well (the top may well always be rocky and arid though).

Now I know that you get an extra min on the top and sides of the volcano, and that you can build roads, mag tubes, mines and solar improvements on the sides. I think that you can build a road on the top (but not a mag tube) and maybe a solar array, but nothing else AFAIK. I know that a mine/road is worth 3 (flat) and 6 (rocky), it is worth at least 4 (and maybe, but probably not 5) if rolling. I don't know what a min special would do to those numbers or if it is even possible to get a min special on a volcano. If you can, a rockymineroadvolcanominspecial should be worth at least 8 and maybe 9 or 10 mins.

Additionally, you can neither farm nor forest the sides or the top, even where not rocky, but it will let you perform the "Drill for Aquifer" command on the sides at least. I suspect that the Borehole option would be OK if you raised the land downslope so that it was the same elevation as the side you wanted to bore.

Speaking of boring Just doing my part to keep up the thread count.

So what about starting a base, terraforming up or down, nuking, etc - What else do people know about Volcanos?

I think I heard a rumor that if you are playing Miriam, and all your bases are arranged in perfect symmetry around the Volcano, the game will let you build a new base on top of the Volcano - if you then make that base Miriam's HQ, it will automatically get the Voice of Planet as a free facility! Another variation of that rumor had it that you had to also capture and interrogate Brother Lal at that base as well; so who knows?

	10-01-2002 02:09									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen the AI found bases many times in the center volcano square... Never tried it myself. I like bases on either side, so they can share the wealth... Or, if there's lots of rocky squares on it, just cover it with crawlers...
John? John? Wake up! I was talking about the volcano!

	10-01-2002 02:21									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yeah, the Volcano is pretty boring - one extra mineral for the roaded rocky mines. The Garland Crater on the other hand is really nice, I believe it's got 9 squares with 1 extra mineral but since you can farm it you can get some nice 2-2-1 squares or 1-3-1 Forests. Finding the Garland Crater early on is a real boon. Use Ctrl-Shift-X when you start the game to look at the raised topography of the hidden map - you can usually spot the Crater. I don't view this as a cheat since I figure you got a glimpse of Planet before crashing on it.

It's cool when a new Volcano erupts. Can this happen more than once per game?

	10-01-2002 03:54									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Use Ctrl-Shift-X when you start the game to look at the raised topography of the hidden map - you can usually spot the Crater

I do this regularly ... Once in a game I lost my HQ (with two SPs ... only) due to a meteorite strike. And lo, the crater was named Garland Crater. It didn't exist beforehand. And if the game plans from the beginning to destroy my first base, I'll guard against that from the beginning.

	10-01-2002 05:16									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Did you know that if you place bases on all four sides, equally spaced of course, as Miriam, the entire faction will turn completely pagan, gaining the benefit of stealing one pop from a random base of each faction bordering them as a sacrifice to their 'fire god'.

	10-01-2002 06:23									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Yxklyx I don't view this as a cheat since I figure you got a glimpse of Planet before crashing on it.

Well actually THAT would be cheating..... how can you spot the Garland Crater since it was created pretty much the same time your pod landed on the planet

	10-01-2002 07:33									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen the AI build a sensor on the top of the volcano, but I've never been able to do much there. To be honest, I've not tried that often (3-4 times total). Who wants to build a road over an active volcano any way?

	10-01-2002 07:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

How was Garland Crater supposedly created?

	10-01-2002 08:05									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've pulled a "King of the Hill" on a volcano: early in a game I treatied with a neighboring AI facion, then had my terraformers perform a "Lower terrain" right on top of the volcano which straddled our common border. I then was able to build a city on top of the volcano, thus giving me the high ground. Needless to say, as the game progressed, the AI couldn't have this threatening city on its border, so it attacked. Because of the volcano's steep slopes, I got a HUGE bonus for altitude for my artillery (2 tiles on the volcano is a LOT of difference in altitude) and after my artillery barrages on the AI units, my choppers mopped up the remains: this was a most excellent killing field, and once the AI had exhausted its reserves, I counterattacked!
However, to agree with the other posters, why unless the volcano straddles a border (or is a similarly strategic position), its a nuisance comparatively speaking.

	10-01-2002 18:54									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The sides of a volcano, also carry a + 1 energy bonus. Thus, I often make Mt Planet, my energy park. Solar collectors on the sides and a ring of echelons around that.

	10-01-2002 22:09									#11
	Re: Just what CAN you do on a Volcano? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by johndmuller I know that a mine/road is worth 3 (flat) and 6 (rocky), it is worth at least 4 (and maybe, but probably not 5) if rolling. I don't know what a min special would do to those numbers or if it is even possible to get a min special on a volcano. If you can, a rockymineroadvolcanominspecial should be worth at least 8 and maybe 9 or 10 mins.

You "KNOW" it????
Incurably optimistic you!!!!

See my post in this thread titled Forest Energy for a concise summary on mines mineral yields (Yes! *I* am the concise one in that thread! YesYesYES!!!)

mineroad is 1 on flat, 2 on rolling, 4 on rocky
mineroadbonus is 4 on flat, 5 on rolling, 7 on rocky

add one mineral AND one Energy for volcano sides (thanks b_c)

	10-01-2002 22:19									#12
	DANCE!!! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Oh, I was almost forgetting...
What can you do on a Volcano???

You can DANCE!!!

	10-01-2002 23:01									#13
	Re: Re: Just what CAN you do on a Volcano? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MariOne You "KNOW" it???? Incurably optimistic you!!!!

I only "knew" it (the 3 flat and 6 rocky) because I am exploiting the Volcano in a current game and I opened it up to see what I was getting out of it. I try to "know" better than to use the word "know" about something I just "remember" . Even so, the twilight zone has been "known" to retroactively revise "facts" on occasion (like the +1 Energy - which was total news to me - in my defense, I am FM Morgan in this game and for an old Yang player the ludicrous amounts of energy are too decadent to consider) .

quote: . . . add one mineral AND one Energy for volcano sides (thanks b_c)

The 6 min production from a rocky-volcano-mine-road was really the item that interested me in the Volcano in the first place. Perhaps the "Tilt" light (I think that there should be a "Tilt" smilie) came on in in conjunction to that very thread you were talking about (in which case I've been walking askew for a while now). According to the Add-One-Min rule, you should only get 5 mins, but in fact you get 6. So there must be something else going on - like perhaps one or more of the mine, road or volcano bonuses is a multiplier (as is the case in the nut bonuses) - leading to that extra kicker. I tried to guess some multipliers once, but I didn't get anywhere before I started wondering why I was even doing it. Perhaps the twilight zone has already retroactively published the true rule right in plain sight somewhere anyway.
Dancing . . . so that's where it comes from .

	10-01-2002 23:23									#14
	heh~ Increase the size of your Attachments

Ive seen the AI found bases,build solars sensors (and farms,wtf) on top of the volcano. The Volcano is an awesome landmark because its got good elevation so excellent energy,drill to quifier in the 4 corners and obscene energy that,and 5 minerals per mine aint to shabby. Oh and on top with a terraformer if you use ctr shift s (i think? for the farm/solar/road) it will build the road and the solar (and gives a nice energy bonus there to) havent tried it with farm/mine/road.

	11-01-2002 02:13									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Kirnwaffen How was Garland Crater supposedly created?

IIRC Garland is the name of the Captain on Unity. So the Crater should be the rest of Unity (crashed on planet).

	11-01-2002 03:02									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

knowhow2, how come if I recall correctly then there is also the Unity wreckage, possibly on the other side of Planet? Haven't played in a while so someone confirm this.
I would suggest it's a product of nature like the one in Mexico, and named probably by someone from the Unity folks after the captain.

quote: I think I heard a rumor that if you are playing Miriam, and all your bases are arranged in perfect symmetry around the Volcano, the game will let you build a new base on top of the Volcano - if you then make that base Miriam's HQ, it will automatically get the Voice of Planet as a free facility! Another variation of that rumor had it that you had to also capture and interrogate Brother Lal at that base as well; so who knows?

	11-01-2002 04:56									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: IRC Garland is the name of the Captain on Unity. So the Crater should be the rest of Unity (crashed on planet).

That was my understanding as well. Then the Unity wreckage appeared in SMAX, and I've been confused ever since.

	11-01-2002 10:30									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And talking of which (the Unity wreckage) - how come the faction discovering it (and moving around it) gets the energy bonus from the core, and yet you can still call a Council meeting to 'salvage the Unity core'

Surely if a faction has explored and exploited the wreckage that option should then be disabled for Council activities.

Googlie

	11-01-2002 10:47									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Surely if a faction has explored and exploited the wreckage that option should then be disabled for Council activities.

But that would make way too much sense...

	11-01-2002 15:11									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well I still think it would be strange to name a existing Crater after you dead captain. Anyway, confusion is the name.

	11-01-2002 15:24									#21
	Re: DANCE!!! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MariOne Oh, I was almost forgetting... What can you do on a Volcano??? You can DANCE!!!

Genesis = Great music in the seventies, a bit lame after that. "You'd better start doing it right!"

quote: And talking of which (the Unity wreckage) - how come the faction discovering it (and moving around it) gets the energy bonus from the core, and yet you can still call a Council meeting to 'salvage the Unity core'

IIRC, there were two fusion cores in the Unity. When the ship broke apart, the 'bigger' core stayed in orbit and 'smaller' core came down with the rest of us.

And I think that garland crater is only a landform named by factions - propably they saw it from the orbit. Or it might be the remnants of the secret "eight faction", whose escape pod wasn't so lucky.

	11-01-2002 20:45									#22
	Build a base on the Volcano Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I a recent game, Mount Planet was right in the middle of a set of bonuses. Santiago build a base at the peak, which I took from her. It had the base tile (which gets the Volcano bonuses, I think), all the side tiles, and then 4 !! bonuses, two food and two mineral, on the downward slopes.

That base ROCKED. Lots of SPs, units, etc. - who needs boreholes? I did farm-solar on the non-rocky tiles, and mines on the rocky tiles.

As far as I know, that is the best thing to do with the Volcano.

	12-01-2002 00:14									#23
	Re: Re: DANCE!!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by aaglo IIRC, there were two fusion cores in the Unity. When the ship broke apart, the 'bigger' core stayed in orbit and 'smaller' core came down with the rest of us.

Actually, I was confused too until I noticed that when you get the 200ec from the landmark, it calls it the "secondary" fusion core.

	12-01-2002 16:54									#24
	Suffering from ads?

Thank you jdm for pointing me out this undocumented inconsistency in the game parameters.
From your first post I had the impression that you could have been assuming the basic yields erroneously.
I didn't get that you were specifically referring to "peculiar" volcano mineral yields, tested different from what the game mechanics declare.

Indeed, now I'm testing it too and these are the results.

MineRoad: flat=1 rolling=2 rocky=4
+ Volcano: flat=3 rolling=4 rocky=6

Volcano itself would positively confer only +1 to the tile yield.
This means that a MineRoad gives a 3rd +1 bonus, on a volcano tile
But BEWARE, while the rocky bonus is cumulative with both the MinSpecial bouns or the Volcano bonus...
the Volcano +1 bonus for a MineRoad is NOT CUMULATIVE with the MinSpecial +1 bonus.

So, if you have a MinSpecial on a Volcano tile, you'll get 5-6-8 for the 3 tiles, getting only +2 for the Special over the non-special situation, while on non-volcano tiles with a MineRoad you get +2+1 where you have a MinSpecial...

I hope this is confused enough to push everybody to make their own tests!

	12-01-2002 17:04									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

PS: I was forgetting (this is a classic for me, you know the aging...)

I tested it with Garland Crater too, and with Nessus Canyon.
The behavior is the same.

So rather than speaking of a 3r +1 mineral bonus for the MineRoad compund on Volcano tiles we should speak of that bonus for any MineralEnhancingLandmark tile (MEL bonus?).

In synthesis, it's a good thing to MineRoad a MEL.

___
PPS:
thus, a RollingMEL tile is equivalent to a normal rocky tile, with respect to MineRoading.
And a RockyMEL tile would be even better than a RollingSpecial tile.
With the catch that a MEL doesn't lift mineral restrictions, so the latter comment DNA in the early game.

Also, I wonder whether Rocky Craterbed tiles can be as frequent as Rocky Volcanoside tiles. To my recollection, I harldy remeber a Rocky Craterbed (usually all those tiles are rolling)...

Last edited by MariOne on 12-01-2002 at 17:12

	12-01-2002 22:29									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: knowhow2: IIRC Garland is the name of the Captain on Unity. So the Crater should be the rest of Unity (crashed on planet).

quote: Kirnwaffen: That was my understanding as well. Then the Unity wreckage appeared in SMAX, and I've been confused ever since.

The Unity Wreckage is just that, the spaceship.
The Garland Crater is the man himself. You freefall 50 or 60 thousand feet with no parachute and see how big a crater you make.

	13-01-2002 02:36									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

))

quote: gwillybj: You freefall 50 or 60 thousand feet with no parachute and see how big a crater you make.

Sorry, I have to disappoint you. On the moon, you might have a chance to create such big a crater. Due to the resistance of air, each falling body will reach a final speed. The speed at which you arrive on the earth is the same if you fell from a plane at 10 km or a building of 100m height. And if you are not very lucky, you are dead anyway (I've heard rumours about one stewardess falling from a plane which had the big luck to fall from a plane on the side of a steep hill where she rolled down ... and survived. Don't even try it )
As the atmosphere of Chiron has a higher density than Earth, the final speed will be even lower.
For those in doubt: The big craters like the one of Mexico is due to the big mass of a meteorite of several kilometers in diameter. So, even from physical reasons I would doubt that Garland crater is from Unity or Captain Garland falling on Planet.

Conclusion: Look for its existence beforehand

	13-01-2002 02:56									#28
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, it would make sense for the new inhabitants of Planet to name a naturally occurring landmark after the deceased leader of the expedition.

As far as Mt. Planet goes, sometimes I'll go straight energy park, more typically I will road/mine the rocky tiles and solar the rest. If there is any free space lower down I might add in a mirror or two.

I honestly haven't seen the AI build any bases on the exact centre of the volcano since patched SMACX. But they still seem to build any number of other improvements that I can't make. I think I have seen the sensor array most often.

	19-01-2002 06:05									#29
	Suffering from ads?

It's possible to build a base in the crater if it's rolling and not rocky. It actually makes quite a good base site, as the base square is 2 nuts/2mins/2energy, which isn't at all bad. It's only possible some of the time though.

	19-01-2002 06:38									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Not sure I follow the General. I have never noticed any special restrictions for building bases inside the Garland Crater. Unless he is talking about the lava dome on top of Mt. Planet, but I never have been successful building there.