10-01-2002 18:06									#1
	Late Game Tedium - Discussion and Solutions Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is pretty long but fairly good I hope; it is at least constructive ...

I think there are fun decisions to make in Civ3, and there are boring decisions to make. Fun decisions involve strategic thinking and planning. Boring decisions involve narrow optimization and busy work that many would like to automate.

Civ is a mix of these fun and boring decisions. However the ratio of fun to boring changes as the game goes on. In the early part of the game, you have fewer units and cities. You spend most of your time on exploring, deciding who to attack and ally with, where to expand, whether to pursue war or peaceful growth, and so on.

Later in the game however the number of units and cities grows exponentially. Now you spend most of your time managing, deciding what improvement to have workers make, where to move military units, what to have cities build, and how to quell civil disorder.

This becomes very bad late game. Early game, for every fun decisions to make, where to expand, when to attack, and so on, you only have to move a few units and manage a few cities. Late game, to get to the fun decisions you have to do many many boring things, like move workers #1-150, move artillery piece #1-40, manage 30 good cities, and manage 70 corrupt cities.

To try to fix this, fun decisions should be maximized, and boring decisions should be minimized. This requires first defining what is fun and what is boring (this will vary for people, but I hope some broad agreement is possible - this is my list, please share yours):

Fun

• Where to Expand
  
• Who to Ally With, Who to Wage War With
  
• Making Interesting Trade Deals
  
• Be Aggressive or Peaceful
  
• Tech Research Path
  
• What Kind and How Big an Army
  
• Where, When, and How to Invade
  

	10-01-2002 19:21									#2
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I think the tedium is a symptom, with two big culprits: pollution & too many units.

On pollution, I've never really understood the point of it in Civ games. "Oh, you have to have some limit on production". You do, once a city has a manufacturing plant and an offshore platform and has a citizen working every shield-producing tile in its radius, you have reached the limit. If you positively must have polution because you just can't feel green without it, then let's model it more realistically. You don't get random blotches that render huge chuncks of real estate unusable, and climate change due to polution is controversial among scientists no matter what the press might tell you. What is an absolutely undeniable effect of polution is it makes a segment of the population unhappy, and the more of it there is the more that segment grows. So, let's keep the smoke stacks but cause smoke stacks to make people unhappy (yes, I know that they are yellow triangles now but smoke stacks gets the idea across). Let's also give the player something to do about it after all the anti-polution buildings are built and you still have smoke stacks - a setting you can set (maybe you have to build a small wonder called "The EPA" before you can use it) called "Environmental Regulation", which would simply reduce your shield production until the smoke stacks went away (effectively reducing the production bonus from buildings as needed to keep the bad thang away). The setting could either be an "on-off" or a number of smoke stacks to tolerate. Oh, yes, people basically did not care about polution prior to the mid-late 20th century so there should be some tech that turns on "polution makes people unhappy", or maybe it just comes as soon as you enter the modern era. Then, with the above in, remove polutioned tiles from the game and either remove global warming altogether (my vote) or make it a function of the global total of smoke stacks rather than the global total of poluted tiles (a compromise I'd accept). Net result - all you have to do to manage polution is to manage a civ-wide setting akin in principle to your tax rate and build buildings.

On too many units, a couple of easy fixes:

a) too many Workers - in real life, improving the terrain is done mostly by local people. So, let this be performed by the city citizen working the tile instead of producing if it is in the city radius. How long it takes would be a function of tech, but there would still only be one per tile at a time. Since the only reason to improve terrain outside cities is to build roads/railroads (or forts if you use them), the need for Workers should be greatly reduced. It should also be something the governors could be made competent to manage, especially if the player could have setting to tell the governor whether to emphasize food or shield production (probably a sliding scale rather than an bit).

b) too many units in general - this is due to design changes that make it possible to support much larger military establishments than in previous games of the series. The fix is simple (and does not require big coding like "stack movement"). Raise the maintenance cost, and make it a function of the unit build cost not a fixed rate. This is realistic - it costs a lot more to support a 1st World Mech Infantry division than a 3rd World non-mechanized Infantry Division. In real life, it also costs more to own a unit for a year than to build it in the first place. This would cut down on the number of units dramatically.

	10-01-2002 20:24									#3
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nato: you hit the nail right on the head.

The solution is obvious. Expand the "Fun" decisions and elminate or drastically reduce the "Boring" decisions.

The "Boring" decisions can be easily eliminated.

quote: What Tile to Put Worker #84 On Mining, Irrigating, Clearing EVERY Tile Roading and Railing EVERY Tile for Output Bonus Cleaning Up Pollution

this can be solved with a PW system.

quote: Deciding What City #39 Should Build Now Getting City #92 Out of Disorder

This can be done through intelligent AI governors assisted by the players direction.

quote: Moving Artillery #26 Moving Tank #15

One word: stacked units.

If you stack units then you can move the equivalent of maybe 3 or 4 units instead of 40!

It would add a sense of strategic planning to warfare. Imagine deciding to move Stack#1 and #2 to attack from the North while sending Stack #3 as a diversion from the South. The enemy stacks would meet and engage in battle. The outcome might be something like: Stack #1 manages to push back the enemy Stack 2 tiles but Stack #2 was forced to retreat, Stack #3 never encountered any enemy forces. Ok, now what do I do? This would be so much more interesting than moving every single unit and having each unit engage in a 2 sec fight to the death.

	10-01-2002 23:43									#4
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Unfortunately, there are a lot of tedious activities in the game. Most of them have been repeatedly pointed out, and some have offered what appear to be workable solutions -- e.g., stack movement; elimination of pollution or else make the effects more abstract.

Aside from these, one of my most disfavored aspects of the game is revolts. I'm not talking about a city or two -- those are fine. I'm talkling about a situation where war weariness sets in, or you lose one or two luxury agreements in a single turn, and suddenly all of your cities revolt. You then spend the next five minutes allocating entertainers; then you renegotiate the luxury agreements, make peace; increase luxury expenditure, etc.; then on the next turn you have to wait while you receive messages from each city that order has been restored; then you have to go into each city and reallocate the entertainers. Sigh.

I would like to see a feature that deals with a situation when more than a certain number of cities revolt in a single turn. In those situations, you should be given a pop-up screen at the beginning of the turn, indicating that X cites are about to revolt. Possible options could include: a) increasing the amount of entertainment in the budget windor; b) allowing the computer to automatically appoint entertainers in each of the trouble cities; c) simply ignoring all revolting cities -- (perhaps you plan on renegotiating the luxury agreements, or negotiating peace on the next turn, which will obviate the need for you having to deal with the situation).

Well, anyways, that's my two cents worth.

	10-01-2002 23:58									#5
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Barnacle Bill - Thats a very good idea for pollution. That does treat pollution more like it is in real life I think. Either it is untreated and makes people unhappy, or it has to be cleaned which essentially costs production.

I really do think pollution causes more tedium than it would seem.

Having the city population build improvements is a cool idea, and would be nice. Given my last attempt at "fixing" terrain improvements though, I'm not sure how well people would receive such a big change, and it would take a lot of new programming. Its a cool idea, I'm just not sure how feasible it would be.

The high cost maintanence idea is interesting ... it would lead to players being able to build miliatary units, but not wanting to because of gold cost. The limiter to your armies would change from shield production to gold income.

With tech trading, its easy to have a huge gold income, so the upkeep cost would have to be pretty steep to stop me from making troops. However it might lead to a cool situation of running a deficit during a war, then having to disband units afterwards instead of keeping them forever. That would be pretty realistic.

One thing, if you had all improvements built in a city, and couldn't afford more units, you'd have cities with nothing to do ... lots of Wealth.

I like having modern units cost more than ancient ones. That would have to be scaled with empire growth right.

Cool ideas!

The diplomat - Thanks thats one of the most positive replies I've ever gotten.

I prefer PW, but I don't think it will ever happen in Civ3. Actually though, if the AI of the automated worker was near optimal, it would be even better than PW. PW still takes some management, while good automated workers run themselves.

I think better governors, ones you could rely on, might be an overlooked improvement that would really reduce the tedium a lot.

As for stacks, we can only hope...

Thanks for the replies ... I think by sharing ideas, people can come up with ideas they could not alone.

	11-01-2002 00:11									#6
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Finally a constructive "complain" thread. I was getting sick of all those #### threads. Nothing gets accomplished by it.

	11-01-2002 00:16									#7
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It isn't true that people didn't care about pollution until the mid-20th century; when the river Thames got so polluted that sittings of parliament had to be abandoned because of the stench, the British government in the mid 19th century began to notice pollution - it's not some hippy thing.
That said, it isn't modelled realistically in Civ - in real life you don't get great big clumps of yecch that ruin hundredsof square km of land. It would be better to have pollution work like corruption, as the horrible environment harms crops, makes workers miserable or ill, etc. It could affect happiness, food or commerce rather than production. A toxic cloud disaster could kill citizens. The maddest part is that, rather than getting a nuclear winter, dropping the bomb contributes to global warming! Huh?!
Regarding workers, I liked CtP's model of giving public work points to create improvements rather than sending little men all over the place, which can get tedious.

	11-01-2002 00:21									#8
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How about pop-ups?
You can read about it in more detail here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=39549

Basically the idea is to compress the many pop-ups into 2 or 3 pop-ups at the end of the AI's turn.

Also an option to save any other pop-ups like diplomacy till the end of the AI's turn so you can leave the computer if the turn takes a long time.

	11-01-2002 00:28									#9
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quote: Originally posted by C Chulainn It isn't true that people didn't care about pollution until the mid-20th century; when the river Thames got so polluted that sittings of parliament had to be abandoned because of the stench, the British government in the mid 19th century began to notice pollution - it's not some hippy thing. That said, it isn't modelled realistically in Civ - in real life you don't get great big clumps of yecch that ruin hundredsof square km of land. It would be better to have pollution work like corruption, as the horrible environment harms crops, makes workers miserable or ill, etc. It could affect happiness, food or commerce rather than production. A toxic cloud disaster could kill citizens.

I like that idea. Would be a little more realistic to have pollution on the level of how the disease model works in CivIII in that it affects the city but does not change the terrain.
Then again, I do think nuclear missiles should affect the terrain. (They should kill all the units and buildings too, but that's another story )

quote: Originally posted by C Chulainn The maddest part is that, rather than getting a nuclear winter, dropping the bomb contributes to global warming! Huh?! Regarding workers, I liked CtP's model of giving public work points to create improvements rather than sending little men all over the place, which can get tedious.

Yeah, a nuclear winter would be more realistic.
You know it's never been proven that pollution is causing global warming? In fact mars is undergoing global warming now as well. Supposedly the sun is going through a hotter/warming cycle right now (and no I don't mean it's becomming a gas giant )

	11-01-2002 00:36									#10
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Automating workers to clean pollution works well when you have pollution present every turn --they keep on going.

Once you have hospitals, all but a few workers should join your bases, if you Industrious/Democracy and have Replacement Parts tech (=400% speed, clearing jungle in 4 turns with a single worker not 16).

Build fewer cities. Give away those 70 corrupt cities unless you are going for domination or conquest.

Don't wage war. Surround your empire with forts and garrison fortified defenders in them. Fortified units do not need management!

	11-01-2002 00:59									#11
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Actually, nulcear winter has been pretty thoroughly discredited sciencewise. It turns out to have been one of those garbage-in/garbage-out computer model things. That's why you don't hear much about it anymore.

Scientific studies and articles are starting to appear challenging the "polution causes global warming" theory as well.

The specific incident mentioned (blech in the Thames) may have upset people, but turn of the century (c. 1900 that is) pop art indicates that smoke stacks belching black into the air was a symbol of progress and prosperity to the culture at large. The big picture was that air quality in industrialized cities of that era was a lot worse than today but people just didn't care.

	11-01-2002 15:27									#12
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DilithiumDad - You have good points. However your solutions require you to not do well.

Pollution automation works as long as you always have pollution ... isn't that kind of self defeating? I just want an automation that works well all the time, basically activating workers when pollution reappears. Global warming hits too fast in this game to keep pollution around.

Build fewer cities ... well I guess that gets to a real heart of the matter. Part of "winning" a 4x game is having lots of cities. I guess that is not the Civ3 way ... but I think enough people want to play that way that it should at least be considered to make it less tedious.

Note I am NOT asking for reduced corruption or stuff like that! Just better automated workers and governors.

Your line "Don't wage war" ... similar to having lots of cities. The reason a lot of players play 4x is to wage war!! In a game with fewer city improvements to build, this is even more true.

I guess I could play with fewer cities and no wars ... but then you start wondering what the point of playing is? To get 30 cities all building Wealth?

	11-01-2002 15:49									#13
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quote: Build fewer cities. Give away those 70 corrupt cities unless you are going for domination or conquest.

[...knocking on poster's head...]

Hello? Anybody in there?

	11-01-2002 16:23									#14
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Pollution affecting city production/wealth/happiness/growth rather than being a tile based event is a great idea. It worked in MoO and would not be difficult to make work in Civ. My biggest dislike in Civ 3 is that pollution stops the square being worked so when your automatic pollution cleaners have finished you have to give the square back to the right city. Otherwise you find one city is now expanding and another shrinking because the starving city didn't grab it back as soon as it was available again.

quote: What Tile to Put Worker #84 On Mining, Irrigating, Clearing EVERY Tile Roading and Railing EVERY Tile for Output Bonus Cleaning Up Pollution

I disagree that PW is a solution to these. You have to decide what tile to PW, still mine, irrigate and clear everything, still need those road/rails unless the bonus system changes and have to PW to clean up pollution. If 30 workers is a good number for your current empire size then 30 workers worth of PW is required to produce the same effect, and to be efficient you stillhave to scroll round your whole empire every turn looking to the best tiles to pick. If we were to move away from this idea then the system must change so only important city-city trade connections need be represented and the development of the land be more focussed on buildings built in the towns that represent increased agricultural, mineral or industrial output from the surrounding area.

Stacked movement? Proper armies !! Why move them together if they then queue up one by one to fight the enemy with no attempt to use combined arms or the advantage of numbers? One idea that Activision got 95% right and Firaxis almost totally failed to incorporate.

	11-01-2002 16:32									#15
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Solution would be that for example you can build railroads the following:

From a list of tasks you select: Building Railroads
Then you hit with your mouse all that tiles that should be railroaded (maybe with a 1x1, 2x2 and 4x4 brush)
Then you assign a number of workers to that task and tada it is done!!

I think this should be the way everything should be done with workers.
When you build workers, they should not appear on map but enter in a "continental fund of workers" where all workers of one continent are in (of one nation of course).

And from this fund then you do all of your tasks (irrigation, mining, clearing jungle,...)

Of course you also have the option to make one worker appear on the map in a special city. So that you can transport him to another continent. And then add him there to the fund. Or of course you could use the worker just the way you were used to use workers. By disabling this continental fund every worker remains its functionality.


Oh and yes I think tiles that were bombarded by another nation should not be worked on again.
So that you can suppress working on tiles by bombarding every turn. This is much more realistic I think.


I think this change would be more of a add-on to the existing code than a rewrite. And for that reason I think it is doable.


Again, I need to say this is a great thread! I would like to see more of em.
the bashing and flaming threads should die out!

ata

	11-01-2002 16:36									#16
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And what happens to your worker when an enemy soldier happens by, or when your rival civ's border expands, or when your coal has disappeared and you can longer build railroads, etc.?

	11-01-2002 16:49									#17
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You're still finding work for each worker to do each turn or losing efficiency. The only saving in mouse-clicks is between scrolling to the new area to be worked vs moving the unit there.

	11-01-2002 16:57									#18
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Libertarian: Good Points! Let's see.

Capturing workers would be not possible anymore. Hmmm.
Okay lets assume a soldier is near than I think it would be no problem that all of the tiles being worked on that surround the enemy soldier are automatically stopped being worked on. Some kind of ZOC that hinders them doing their work.

When coal dissappears logically all railroadbuilding is canceld

And when the civs border expand logically you cant work on these tiles anymore.

I see no problem with the last two points. The first about capturing and ZOC could make problems.

quote: You're still finding work for each worker to do each turn or losing efficiency. The only saving in mouse-clicks is between scrolling to the new area to be worked vs moving the unit there.

Completely wrong.
You mark the tiles that have to be railroad assign the number and voila. It is done. You can mark a hundred tiles (as said maybe with bigger sized brushes) and that doesnt save you time????

Else you have to move every worker on every tile and hit: 'r' a hundred times you have to move workers and hit 'r' for a hundred tiles. Plus you save a lot of scrolling time.

Problems do exist however with this "solution".
For example: How to determine how fast the railroads should be built? How to determine how to stack the workers?

Problems arising, maybe it is not possible to do this very easy.

ata

	11-01-2002 17:10									#19
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Drag/highlight may help with point to point railroads but I don't see it being much help for 'every tile' improvements where the most efficient expansion is the next tile to be utilised per city rather than all of city A radius before all of city B radius etc. The initial phase of railroading is the bit I quite enjoy managing myself - getting an imperial transport network up and running and maximising my super-industry cities output before my one coal runs out. Its the 'fill in the blanks' irrigation, road, railroad and mining that is boring. Your system is a small saving but I don't think its radical enough to cure the tedium.

	11-01-2002 17:24									#20
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Grumbold - I agree PW is not a perfect solution to terrain improvement tedium. You are totally right.

Currently I think the best solution would be to improve the worker automation routines. They don't have to be perfect, just good enough that you don't lose too much optimality using them. Good automated workers would be superior to PW.

Using city improvements to represent terrain improvements might be a good idea. However it also might just shift the managment tedium from workers to cities.

My dream solution is still what I posted under "Radical Idea to Reduce Tedium", using techs to increase terrain output. Zero tedium! But thats not likely to happen.

Oh yeah, I would LOVE to have stacked combat rather than just stack movement ... sigh if only ... but I think we will be lucky if we just get movement.


Atahualpa - Wow a brush, like laying walls in Age of Kings (sorry for the RTS mention RTS haters). Clever! I'd have never thought of that.

I could see it as being more possible if individual workers were selected and you could use the brush to give him orders. I really like that idea.

The "continental pool", with workers not appearing on the map, would be pretty identicle to PW I think. PW with a brush tool would be a big improvement over the original PW idea though.

The bombardment idea would make it like you had a unit occupying the tile bombarded. Maybe, I'm not so sure ... I don't know if a unit's barrage of shells is really large enough to prevent all work on a tile sized area.

That brush idea really might be onto something, I think... Grumbold has a great point that lots of clicking = tedium, and the brush would save clicking ...


Libertarian - I think using Atahualpa's brush idea would be like giving the Worker an order queue ... the brush idea just lets the player give the Worker the queue in a quick way, without having to click every tile. If one of those events occured, interupting the Worker's order queue, how about the queue is just canceled, and the Worker enters the activation queue? Just like sometimes units on a Go To command do when they come across an enemy.

Now I have to take a break from saying "queue" so much ...

	11-01-2002 17:28									#21
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Sorry, i fail to see how 'mass improvement designing' with brushes would improve automated worker efficiency. Or how it differs to standard automating workers in any useful way.

As automated workers stand now, they make improvements based on how useful they see each improvement would be. Road connections to and around cities, mines and irrigation around cities only, then roads/rails in squares inside your cultural border, but not in any city radius. I dont know exactly how the automated workers decide what should be done and where as i control all my workers, but i know from the AI's workers that the algorythm is more advanced than "build roads everywhere in this 4x4 box".

Obviously the alogythm for the automated workers is not as efficient as it could be, and a good player will be able to optimise their workers much better than the AI, but there are also much worse ways of automating the workers.

I dont see PW being any better than this system either, as you still have to go to each city and place stuff down. For me it would be even worse, as without a worker telling me i had some 'improvement points' to use i would forget about improving for a couple of turns, and once i remembered place heaps of improvements down. This would result in a less efficient empire than automating my workers ever could.

btw: You can already automate workers to just build railroads (for example), or to build a railroad between cities or such. Automating several would probably mean that they stack to help each other.

	11-01-2002 17:34									#22
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quote: Originally posted by nato Using city improvements to represent terrain improvements might be a good idea. However it also might just shift the managment tedium from workers to cities. My dream solution is still what I posted under "Radical Idea to Reduce Tedium", using techs to increase terrain output. Zero tedium! But thats not likely to happen.

It really depends how they balance it out. Would inventing the tech automatically result in all cities instantly upgrading be too powerful? Should the emperor (you) have to consider whether to finance fast adoption of that knowledge in key cities (rushing the building the tech makes available)?

In MoO, a planet (city-radius) could host a finite number of people and factories. Discovering a tech would instantly make more space for new population or more factories but the city would have to grow or use its production on building more factories to make use of that advantage. In civ terms I see putting a building on the production queue and maybe rushing it as far faster than instructing workers to upgrade all appropriate tiles in the city radius. It has no 'click' savings over auto-worker but you don't have to worry that the auto-worker has chosen the wrong tiles to start on.

	11-01-2002 17:47									#23
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Skanky Burns - I agree that for Civ3 automated workers is probably the most realistic solution.

I am willing to accept the loss of efficiency from using them ... but I don't think many players are, as is. There must be some room for improvement ... if the routine was somehow improved, more ppl might be willing to use them, solving lots of tedium.

Same goes for governors.

Once again, I agree PW is still too annoying, because it requires tile by tile work, one at a time.

Grumbold - I think if you could click and drag an area, it would save on clicking pretty well ... I agree, more radical solutions would reduce tedium more, but the brush idea might be doable with workers.

MoO 1 sure seems to have gotten a lot right! I do remember being really disappointed when MoO 2 switched to a boring conventional just-like-everyone-else city improvement style.

I really believe sometimes ppl just imitate the past too much, and don't think out of the box enough.

As for my tech advancement idea, it would lead to a sudden sharp increase in production. It would be powerful, but as long as everyone could research the tech, everyone would have the same benefit. I think it would work fantastic, but others disagree. It would be zero tedium!

Your city improvement idea has a lot of merit, and is certainly better than the current model. Its just that managing cities is one of the main tedium items, so I think it might just be shifting things around, unless governors or build queues were much improved.

However your improvement idea, and my tech idea, are probably both too radical to really hope for. Right now I think an improved worker AI is the most realistic hope.

	11-01-2002 18:19									#24
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Posted by nato:

quote: Third is maybe using Governors to handle city management ... I don't know much about this since I was never willing to trust them, but maybe it is worth the inevitable loss of optimality.

I donīt think I believe my eyes. You are complaining about a feature you havenīt even tested!

I use governors for handling citizen moods almost from the beginning, and in my opinion they work good enough. Yes, I sometimes micromanage cities, but mostly the governor is pretty decent. If the governor is turned on he will take care of riots, so that is a no-issue.

The automated workers (shift-A) suck at the beginning of the game when you have a limited number of workers and lots of unimproved tiles. At this stage you have to carefully decide how to use your workers. However, during the later stages of the game (which are under discussion here) they work pretty well. The only problem is that they wonīt clear pollution (effectively). I believe this could easily be fixed in a patch, since it requires minimal coding.

As I see it, the only major problem is the lack of stacked movement.

	11-01-2002 18:39									#25
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Hurry - I don't really consider myself a huge complainer, though I do think there are some fairly large fixes that need to be made.

I actually did use the manage mood feature sometimes, but found the manage city building unworkable. I think most ppl agreed with this on the forums...

You have a good point about the efficiency of automated workers depending on how many there are. I just think the routine needs a little improvement ... otherwise why is no one happy using them?

Oh yeah, thanks for the smiley ... I'll try to write stuff that your eyes can believe in the future ...

	11-01-2002 18:53									#26
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I forgot to mention before, good effort Nato for starting a rational discussion on late game tedium.
Your list and analysis of said list is pretty spot-on, and reflects most peoples ideas of fun/boring decisions.


That said, Civ for me is a game where i can build up my empire. That includes all the tile infastructure. So for me, building all those tile improvements and actually being able to watch my "civilized areas" growing constantly is also a fun aspect for me - therefore controlling my workers is fun for me. But judging by most peoples complaints about moving workers, this feeling isnt shared by others

	11-01-2002 19:18									#27
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One possibility would be to punish players for too much micromanagement, or reward them for automation. It's perfectly natural that city governors or worker battalion leaders would resent being told every last action that they should take, and that they should know better than a far-away nation leader how to accomplish their task. Let automated workers work faster than non-automated, and micromanaged cities have more corruption or unhappiness. Then players would only micromanage when neccessary.

Right now, governors and automated workers are less competent than the player. So perfectionists will try micromanage everything, and the game slows down. If the governors and automated workers are made more competent, and the player is given a bonus for trusting them, the game would play much faster.

Letting extra food production carry over to the next population level and and extra shield production carry over to the next item in the queue would also help a lot.

	11-01-2002 19:28									#28
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I can feel the phrase "imperial force points" being coined somewhere


We can see how well it pans out in MoO3. My initial reaction on hearing this idea was 'how dare the game dictate to me how much I can or cannot micromanage my own affairs'. Often it is only by micromanaging something for a few games that you can discover how much difference it really will make. Then when I know a game well I can make accurate judgements about when to Shift-A almost all my workers, switch on governors or whatever.

	11-01-2002 20:37									#29
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If you could automate them t o pollution cleaning that would be one step in the right direction.

ata