11-01-2002 20:32									#1
	Enemies in my rear! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've tried Preparation-H and it didn't help. Without Zones of Control, the enemy just pours through and into my hinterlands. Okay, I can live with this feature, but I want a balance. No army of any size can operate far from its own borders without a secure supply line. Hmmmm, I just watched about 25 Persian knights slip through my frontier and into the center of my large kingdom where it ransacked at will. Shouldn't these units take hit points damage for being out of supply? Maybe they could become less effective after a turn or two. A supply line could be defined several ways. The easiest would be for the unit to be within a certain number of tiles from a friendly city. Maybe it should have to trace a line, by road or rail clear of enemy troops, to a friendly city. Is it just me or do others have this problem? It's a real pain in the ass.

	11-01-2002 20:41									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LOL....I've been arguing for increasing support costs due to supply lines and distance from the homeland since SMAC bro...good luck!

For the record, I agree with you. When the Mod I'm proposing comes out, one of the things it'll feature are "colorless" units for each civ to build. Since they are not associated with your civ's color, if you launch an attack with them, there is no declaration of war...and since there's no declaration of war, you'll be able to patrol your borders and open up a can o' whupa$$ on any would be intruder without starting a general war....not a perfect fix, it's true. It'd be better if you could preserve the sanctity of your national borders by telling the AI to get out and actually have them listen, but.....it's not gonna happen, so this is one way to enforce it without dragging your civ through the muck of war every time you get a border jumper.

-=Vel=-

	11-01-2002 21:52									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Good idea, Vel. I just might modify a unit tonight for that very purpose.

Have you tested it yet? Does the AI attack what would essentially be a land privateer?

	11-01-2002 22:01									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The mod I'm presently working on has 4 units with "no nationality". They are expensive to build, fast, pack a good punch, but are weak on defense. One of these would be a "patrol man" to be used to...umm..."remove permanently" enemy units in your territory. The worry is how the AI will use such a unit, too much or at all.

The only other idea is to build a wall of units around your borders to stop them from getting through. Though this seems kind of wasteful it is the tactic I am using now in my games.

	11-01-2002 22:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Nope....haven't done any testing with that one yet, but it's on the list for the weekend.....been tweaking a bunch of other stuff tho...and so far, I'm happy to report that the mod-as-proposed is pretty cool! If you beat me to the testing tho (I don't get outta here till six), let me know how it goes!

-=Vel=-

	12-01-2002 01:16									#6
	Remove this text

Wolfgrin,
Up through the Napoleonic Wars, armies usually lived off the land.

I know, trying to defend borders with physical units is a 'bleep', though I tend to try to do that in some areas & eras.

Personally, I also would prefer stronger ZOCs, though I just think that their implementation is too weak. To me, the offending unit should not get their defense strength "doubled because they are moving" -- you shouldn't move through ZOCs because it is too expensive to in most situations.