12-01-2002 23:20									#1
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So Israeli army destroyed the airport and destroyed the navan base of the palestinians as reprisals for the smuggling of arms inside Palestine. (which the Israelis got - BTW according to CNN the negotiation of the captain of the boat with an official of the palestinian authority was held in hospitable Greece... )

Together with the naval base and the airport the israelis destroyed 54 HOUSES of the palestinian people.

It seems to me that the policy of Israel is : you try to **** us up, we'll **** you up 10 times so you don't do it again. And it seems to me the israelis are not shy to let lose a couple of missiles to hit Accidentaly" palestinian houses and civilians in the framework of their policy of ****ing you up if you try to screw us....

I mean there were 54 HOUSEs, not one or two or three...

Siro?

	12-01-2002 23:23									#2
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54 houses? That's about one house for every ton of weapons the PA tried to smuggle in...

	12-01-2002 23:28									#3
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I thought this was common knowledge.

	12-01-2002 23:47									#4
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Official version :
The houses were demolished not in response for the arms smuggle attempt, but in retaliation to the attack that killed 4 Israeli soldiers in Israeli territory. Palestinian terrorists were shooting continuosly from these houses on Israeli soldiers and civilians.

	12-01-2002 23:50									#5
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Also, in the next time Israel should act just like it's good ally, the US, acts. And will "accidently" destroy a village or two.
Oh, and I think that it's time for us to help another ally of ours in his war against Greek terrorists.

	12-01-2002 23:56									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Official version : The houses were demolished not in response for the arms smuggle attempt, but in retaliation to the attack that killed 4 Israeli soldiers in Israeli territory. Palestinian terrorists were shooting continuosly from these houses on Israeli soldiers and civilians.

Accomodating...!

And I think mossad did help your ally with Ocalan... And they are kurdish freedom fighters, not even Greeks

	13-01-2002 01:51									#7
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I pledge allegiance to our eternal ally Turkey on its just cause to shave all of your punk greek asses

	13-01-2002 01:59									#8
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Sorry I have to leave for the conference of the palestian authority. They are looking for a middle man for the second cargo

	13-01-2002 02:05									#9
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Doesnt Israel Supply turkey with equipment and train turkish armed forces?


Last I knew Turkey and Israel were amazingly close friends.....for turkey to be muslim and all.

	13-01-2002 02:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Sorry I have to leave for the conference of the palestian authority. They are looking for a middle man for the second cargo

If the Israelies catch you, they have orders to turn you over to the Turks.


I don't think that bulldozing houses is a good idea as simple form of retaliation. But if those house were uses as postions for terrorist, then the people there should have expected some form of response.

This may sound stupid, but I had no idea that so many Israelies lived in the Gaza strip. What are the official numbers on this? I knew that some did, but from what I saw on a map, there were Israeli settlements near the Egyptian border.

One question? Can the Palastinians actually create a viable state out of what little has been set aside. I'm not asking about the merits of giving more land or taking some away. Just a simple question about the practicality of setting up a state with the land they have to work with. What exactly could they produce? Israel was barely viable with what they started out with and only after they took more land(after the Arabs attacked)were they allowed to grow.

	13-01-2002 02:19									#11
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quote: Sorry I have to leave for the conference of the palestian authority. They are looking for a middle man for the second cargo

Better get an anal plug . I heard they really like young greek men .... but on the other hand , they might use the famous bottle opening system when one doesn't have a corkscrew. just to shove the plug INSIDE . now what will be firm and rigid enough , yet still approximately the right size to shove a plug up your anus....

	13-01-2002 02:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Doesnt Israel Supply turkey with equipment and train turkish armed forces? Last I knew Turkey and Israel were amazingly close friends.....for turkey to be muslim and all.

The IAF uses the open spaces in Turkey for training. The same goes for the Israeli navy.
We've also had several joint naval exercises lately.

	13-01-2002 02:25									#13
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Ya, Israel chooses its friend wisely...

1)USA
2)Ethiopia
3)India
4)Turkey

And thats about all the friends you need.

	13-01-2002 02:31									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti Better get an anal plug . I heard they really like young greek men .... but on the other hand , they might use the famous bottle opening system when one doesn't have a corkscrew. just to shove the plug INSIDE . now what will be firm and rigid enough , yet still approximately the right size to shove a plug up your anus....

ROTFLM errr AO touchy aren't we

	13-01-2002 02:50									#15
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Paiktis, don't mess with Dalgetti, he gives Turks specialised lectures about the art of buttplugging. He's a mossad expert on buttplugging. I wouldn't get on his nerves.


Btw, I think the "you try and **** us and we **** you up 10 folds" is a very nice system.

As far as hitting civilians, it does make me very sad, but if they happen to lend their house to shoot from, don't let them be surprised. I understand it's often beynd their control, but we can't allow "turret stations" to stand.

	13-01-2002 03:07									#16
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Siro,

Do you think the "I think the "you try and **** us and we **** you up 10 folds" is a very nice system, " can be traced to religous differences?

For example, Jews believe "an eye for an eye," is the acceptable way to handle aggression, where Christians differ (though theory is not always the same as reality) in using a "turn the other cheek," mentality.

One of the reasons many Western nations look down on Israel for its retaliations.

And what is the Muslim stance on this? Does anybody know?

	13-01-2002 03:14									#17
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NO, not at all religious. I'm very non-religious if anything.

I believe it for political and philosophical reasons. Or maybe because that's the kind of S.O.B I am

	13-01-2002 03:17									#18
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No, no, my bad, I didn't mean you in particular, what I meant was the nation of Israel, which is about as religious of a state by definition as you can get, being a Jewish state.

It being a Jewish state, it is more acceptable for harsh retaliation because it a foundational belief.

	13-01-2002 04:10									#19
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No, Ted, I'd say that has to do with us being tough ass Jews from a national point of view.

From a pure religious point of view, we would probably be less harsh, since mostly, judaism is very non-agressive.

But then again, one word from yahweh and we'd fried some palestinian ass, so who knows?

	13-01-2002 05:08									#20
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"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]


In 1953, Ariel Sharon attacked Qibya, a West Bank village, slaughtering more than 60 inhabitants. Sharon's soldiers shot "every man, woman and child they could find" and then dynamited 42 houses, a school and a mosque (Chicago Tribune, Feb. 8, 2001).

In the early 1970s, Sharon led the "pacification" of Gaza, in which large numbers of Palestinian homes were bulldozed and hundreds of Palestinians forcibly deported to neighboring countries.

In August of 1982 Sharon ordered the indiscriminate bombing of schools, hospitals and apartment blocs in Beirut, Lebanon. Zeev Schiff and Ehud Yaari wrote that Sharon told Israeli officers that Palestinian neighborhoods in Beirut should be "utterly destroyed." Leon Weiseltier, writing in the "New Republic" magazine, called Sharon's attacks on Beirut, "terror-bombing pure and simple." Some 17,000 Arab civilians were killed in Sharon's Beirut bombings (The Independent [UK], Feb. 6, 2001).


Is it fair to say that had you not the support of the US Shauron would be in front of the Hague tribunal for crimes against Humanity?

And doesn't US support qualifies it as a protector of perpetrators of humanitarian crimes?

	13-01-2002 05:20									#21
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The top United Nations human rights body has adopted a resolution condemning Israel for "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and has launched an investigation into the violence.

Is the UN just a commie institution and not to be bothered with?

Were these houses shelters for anything?

	13-01-2002 05:23									#22
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Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is being summoned to a Belgian court to answer questions over his role in the 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacres, say Belgian media reports.
Two separate claims against Mr Sharon are being brought under a 1993 Belgian law, which allows war crimes and genocide to be tried in Belgium, even if the events took place elsewhere, and even if none of the victims was Belgian.


Is Belgium commie land and the EU too? Is anyone who doesn't comorf to US - Israeli interests served by terrorism themselves a "commie"?

	13-01-2002 05:25									#23
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Tuesday 3 July 2001

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has cancelled a visit to Belgium this week after the Brussels State Prosecutor's Office ruled he could be indicted on war crimes charges.


And shouldn't a legitimate leader of country be allowed to travel freely in western democracies?

	13-01-2002 05:28									#24
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Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon faced growing pressure on Sunday over a 1982 massacre of Palestinians, following efforts to bring him to trial and Slobodan Milosevic's handover to the UN war crimes tribunal.


Who is a terrorist and who is not? Who decides it?

r e a l p o l i t i c

	13-01-2002 05:33									#25
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and having said that,

we should ALL be against terrorism and should ALL respect International Law.

All or none. (US, Israel, Turkey included).

	13-01-2002 05:33									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I don't think that bulldozing houses is a good idea as simple form of retaliation. But if those house were uses as postions for terrorist, then the people there should have expected some form of response.

I agree completely. None of us here (unless Sharon is reading the forums ) know the truth, and any attempt to say for sure what happened would simply be the sum of the biases of whoever's posting it. I suppose the three possibilities are:
1) The Palestinians are right, and the Israelis just decided to knock down some houses to show they were tough.
2) The Israelis are right, and all the IDF needed was political approval to knock down these houses which had been used as bases for shooting attacks. The attack on the Israeli soldiers just outside Gaza showed that the Palestinians weren't serious about the cease fire, clearing the way for this operation.
3) Some combination of the two, either:
a) There had been shooting from the houses, but not recently.
b) There had been shooting from some of the houses, but once the Israeli soldiers got into their bulldozers, they got a bit carried away and bulldozed some extra houses.

quote: This may sound stupid, but I had no idea that so many Israelies lived in the Gaza strip. What are the official numbers on this? I knew that some did, but from what I saw on a map, there were Israeli settlements near the Egyptian border.

About 7,000 in total. None near the Egyptian border as far as I know, so maybe your map showed all zones controlled by Israel as "settlement" areas?

quote: One question? Can the Palastinians actually create a viable state out of what little has been set aside. I'm not asking about the merits of giving more land or taking some away. Just a simple question about the practicality of setting up a state with the land they have to work with. What exactly could they produce? Israel was barely viable with what they started out with and only after they took more land(after the Arabs attacked)were they allowed to grow.

I'm not sure "viable" has any meaning here except in the military sense, and they will never be able to successfully fight their neighbors in the event of war. So then I think the real question is not can they create a viable state, but a viable society - Singapore worked great despite its size, Zaire just hasn't taken off despite its large area.

Ted Striker: Well actually, "eye for an eye" has never been Jewish doctrine either - you got rid of it in the NT, we in the Talmud, but the net result is the same. Judaism doesn't really object to revenge. Siro can correct me if I'm wrong, but Nekama has perhaps even a bit of a positive connotation. Revenge against fellow Jews is forbidden in the same way most societies dissaprove of taking revenge on one's family (the Midrash compares it to a man who, on accidentally cutting his right hand with a knife held in the left, transfers the knife to the right hand and cuts the left in revenge) but not as anything more. Still, I don't think this really explains it, because the really religious parties (Shas, UTJ) seem to be the most disinterested in the conflict. I think that if there is any desire for revenge in Israeli society more so than in other societies (which I wouldn't take for granted, witness the people on this forum who later apologized for things said on 9/12) it is because of the regions where Israelis come from, not their religion. People from Poland and people from Iraq share at least one thing in common - long memories.
Islam is a bit conflicted on the matter. Under the Sharia, the family of a murder victim has the right to pardon the killer, and this is considered meritorious. On the other hand, as one Egyptian cleric put it, contrasting his faith with Christianity, "In Islam, if I slap your cheek you slap me back." I think both Islam and Judaism view revenge as basically good, but only if done to those actually guilty of wrongdoing, not just those of the same ethnicity.

quote: In 1953, Ariel Sharon attacked Qibya, a West Bank village, slaughtering more than 60 inhabitants. Sharon's soldiers shot "every man, woman and child they could find" and then dynamited 42 houses, a school and a mosque (Chicago Tribune, Feb. 8, 2001).

False, the Israelis made everyone they could find leave the village and then dynamited the houses; which killed some villagers who had stayed in the houses. But I just love it how Sharon is a murderer while Arafat is our partner for peace. I just wish I could find the cartoon in which Arafat leans over a bomb while warning Peres and Barak "don't bother me, I'm working on the 'peace proccess.' "
And I bet you a hundred dollars the author isn't a real Rabbi either.

	13-01-2002 06:17									#27
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Last edited by Sirotnikov on 13-01-2002 at 07:01

	13-01-2002 06:19									#28
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yet another breach of international - Apolyton law!!!

	13-01-2002 06:21									#29
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Makes you wonder why he had that image lying around to edit...

	13-01-2002 06:21									#30
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It's not like it's porn