13-01-2002 20:57									#1
	I guess Firaxis and Sid Mier has brain washed some people already Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

After playing and watching the CtP2 forums I thought people have learned their leasons.

Many people and me included said they will never get anthour Activison product again or at least will not get CtP3 if it ever came out.

How come people are giving out or asking for things for Civ4. The game has only been out for what like 3 months, are you people already sick of playing Civ3? If so why ask for Civ4 so you can play for only 3 months and ask for Civ5?


So how come alot of people are asking for Civ4 and not patches to fix Civ3 for better play. At least over at Europa Universalis they keep patching the game so the game will last longer.

Am I missing something? I still play Civ3 when I have time, and I got it the first day it came out, so I cant even think of Civ4.

Please explain to me why you ask for Civ4.

1. Is it you are finished Civ3 and dont play it anymore?(then it cant be that good a game for you if you cant play it anymore. Then why look forward for anthour product again.)

2.Is it you hope they lernt thier lesson and will put out a better product?(I don't think so. Look at CtP2. Different company but Firaxis and Infogrames made the exactly the same mistakes. If they learnt thier lesson they would have done it before hand.)

3.Is it you only play game for a month or so no matter how good it is?(That is a good possibility but for me I would play for years or at least many months. eg. Masters of Orion and Civ2. Played for years.)

4. Some other reason wich I couldn't think of.

I am not trying to put people down I just want to understand peoples opnions here, wich I can't understand sometimes.

Davor

	13-01-2002 21:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think most players have a rather short attention span so they quickly get bored if the game isn't captivating and......Oh look! a pretty butterfly!!!

	13-01-2002 21:40									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think they lost the Ridlin

	13-01-2002 23:41									#4
	Re: I guess Firaxis and Sid Mier has brain washed some people already Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Yolky How come people are giving out or asking for things for Civ4. The game has only been out for what like 3 months, are you people already sick of playing Civ3? If so why ask for Civ4 so you can play for only 3 months and ask for Civ5?

Part of the fun of Civ is that is makes the imagination work.

Everyone dreams of that perfect combat, or unit, or variation, or scenario. It's part of the fun. And of course, everyone wants Civ5 now, not in 10 years. (Of course, it wouldn't play on today's computers.)

	13-01-2002 23:57									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

I think you can chalk a lot of it up to the pre-game hype surrounding Civ3. From reading some of the posts here, in the months preceeding the release, I think that for some people, fantasizing about Civ3 substituted fantasizing about sex

People were so hype up for the release, that the actual game was bound to be a disappointment for them (note that I don't mean all you guys out there). So what to do with all that disappointment - oh yeah...let's fantasize about Civ4 instead. That should keep us occupied for a few years

Asmodean

P.S. Please note, that I didn't major in psycology

	14-01-2002 00:30									#6
	Re: I guess Firaxis and Sid Mier has brain washed some people already Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Yolky I am not trying to put people down

indeed, you're just calling them brainwashed...

	14-01-2002 01:14									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think the problem is that most of the things people want to see implemented would require a major re-write of Civ3, which Firaxis obviously won't do, so the best we can do is gripe and campaign about the features now in the hope that Firaxis take note and implement the features in the next game.

Having said that, as they seem to have missed no brainers - like grouping units for movement (i mean properly, not this armies nonsense) - i wouldn't be too hopeful

	14-01-2002 02:00									#8
	Re: Re: I guess Firaxis and Sid Mier has brain washed some people already Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by MarkG indeed, you're just calling them brainwashed...

Sorry if that was the case, but I really didn't mean to put anyone down, just a figure of speech. I am still not good at typing what I really want to mean and again am sorry if anyone thought I was putting them down.

Davor

	14-01-2002 03:08									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: And of course, everyone wants Civ5 now, not in 10 years. (Of course, it wouldn't play on today's computers.)

I want to be excluded from "everyone"

I rather not want another civ-like game now.
Civ3 is perfectly fitting. It just needs some tweaks here and there and everything is fine.

It sure DOES NOT need a major rewrite of the code. Many things can be altered with moderate work.


But the only way one really sees how people liked a game is when you release an add-on. If the add-on of Civ3 sells perfectly than it means that most customers are very satisfied and that the game was well received. If it sells badly than Firaxis got their bill.
Personally I think with one or two more patch(es) the last remaining bugs could be wiped out and the major problems tweaked (like Air Units (or generally: bombard units), Worker Automation, Governor,...).
But I am confident that Firaxis do their job right.
As far as I know Civ3 and SimGolf are the only thing they can make money with right now and they dont have any new game they are working on? Do they?

ata

	14-01-2002 03:58									#10
	Re: Re: I guess Firaxis and Sid Mier has brain washed some people already Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zachriel Part of the fun of Civ is that is makes the imagination work. Everyone dreams of that perfect combat, or unit, or variation, or scenario. It's part of the fun. And of course, everyone wants Civ5 now, not in 10 years. (Of course, it wouldn't play on today's computers.)

That game already exist for Civ2MP as a specific play variant, it's called a "DIPLOGAME" where you play with several people who act as leaders/representatives of their civs and post about their tales of endeavour on the Civ2MP forum. Diplogames are very rewarding but they can take a long time to complete (months).

Check out the FAQ I made and read up on some of the older diplo threads in the Civ2MP forum. Pretty good stuff.

	14-01-2002 04:30									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I want to be excluded from "everyone"

Can't blame you. It is easy to use the word "every", but rarely with any accuracy when talking about people. I am very happy with Civ3, and eagerly await any patches, updates, or revisions.

	14-01-2002 07:36									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It could be that a lot of people feel that no amount of patching can save CivIII. The only hope is another Civ game that will satisfy their desires for a real Civilization game that can maintain as much interest and enthusiasm as CivI and CivII.

Although, the real question they should be asking is, "Who should design CivIV?"

	14-01-2002 07:49									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Many do not believe that Civ III has what it takes to be okay wit patches.

	14-01-2002 15:12									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I would rather they issued a patch that fixed the little anoying things in Civ 3 then start work on Civ 4

	14-01-2002 16:15									#15
	Civ 3.5 Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have played Civ ever since the begining, I have Civ 1 & 2 for both Mac and PC, I got Smac and SmacX, by mistake i bought CTP, and now I have purchased Civ 3SE.
And I must say, I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED.

The diplomacy doesn't work very well, the trade is terrible, eg. if I want to buy ivory I have to pay something like 490 gold and 25 per turn, 2 or 3 techs and my world map. If I on the other hand offer ivory, the deal will be something like 100 now and 2 per turn - if I'm lucky.

The espionage part is better left unnoticed.
Exploring the world is hopeless, by the time you can travel cross the ocean, there is nothing to go there for.

The resource concept is actually a good concept but it doesn't work very well - the games is in dyer need of a spotmarket or something like that.

Apart from these thing - there is quite a bit of work left to be done on the Interface/gameplay.

I wait eagerly on Civ 3.5 and expect a free update.

Best regards
René Caspersen

	14-01-2002 16:42									#16
	Re: Civ 3.5 Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by RCA The diplomacy doesn't work very well, the trade is terrible, eg. if I want to buy ivory I have to pay something like 490 gold and 25 per turn, 2 or 3 techs and my world map. If I on the other hand offer ivory, the deal will be something like 100 now and 2 per turn - if I'm lucky.

ROFL. It's just the AI making *you* bend over. Perhaps you should try to become better at Civ3 to prevent the AI from 'abusing' you this way, instead of proclaiming that diplomacy "doesn't work very well".

	14-01-2002 17:23									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like Civ III for what it is and what it may become after the patch and expansion cycle is complete. That it is not quite what we had hoped for, asked for or in some cases led to believe was being produced is obvious. There are still some fundamental changes that would be good to see in a Civ game at a later date - which is why there will always be some demand for Civ IV, CtP 3 or whatever it ends up calling itself. This list will no doubt differ from person to person but here is what I want to see that will never be in Civ III:

- Fully fledged use of the resources system in a more sensible way. Not have you got coal yes/no, but how much have you got and how expensive is it to extract?
- A much broader set of units so that smooth upgrade paths eliminate the 20th century pikeman problem without eliminating the advantage of research and resources.
- Solid army based combat with integrated air and artillery support.
- Even better diplomacy, including the ability to import armaments you do not have the technology or industry to produce.
- Advisor screens designed for any number of computer players, or at the bare minimum at least the maximum number allowed by the game (min 16).
- Full multiplayer support out of the box.
- Wonders as a national undertaking, not limited to a single city effort.
- A better system for modelling improved agriculture and industry than the current tile by tile use of workers or PW.
- An editor or scripting system that will allow modmakers at least the level of functionality provided by CtP2.
- A separation between the theoretical and practical applications of a technology. Yes you got the schema for a nuclear bomb by hacking the enemies defence network, but can you build one?
- Ample provision at all levels of the game for additional player made units, civs, wonders, techs etc without being forced to displace existing ones.
- A system of supply to allow faster movement near home territory and eliminate the farcical 1000-year circumnavigation of the globe by galley.

	14-01-2002 17:31									#18
	Your'e so right Get a bigger avatar today!

I couldn't agree more.

	14-01-2002 18:16									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You seem to forget that we are mostly all the Civ1, Civ2, CtP, and CtP2 fans, I personally play civ2 more than civ3. Civ3 was VERY disapointing, considering that it made it allot harder to do everything that you could do in civ2. I hope that their next patch is a allot better or I might jus zone out on civ2 entirely.