13-01-2002 23:10									#1
	Pre-determined "Random" combat??? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Nothing irks me more than when a substantially inferior unit somehow miraculously kills a far superior unit - like say a Longbowman killing a Tank. I mean, get real. Even if the longbowman was lucky enough to get an arrow through a teeny eye-slit viewpiece to kill one crewmember, there are 2-3 other crewmen still running the tank.

So, to combat this and other irregular combat outcomes, I'll sometimes save my game right before I attack. I've learned something interesting...

No matter how many times I reload the game (and I've tried this a LOT) the combat result is ALWAYS THE SAME! This tells me that combat rolls are predetermined for each turn BEFORE the combat takes place!!



A recent example, I was about to crush the annoying Zulu tribe's last 2 cities - each defended by 2 Impi warriors (Def=2 + bonus for city) with a stack of 5 knights, and a musketeer for defence. I saved game before combat, then went to battle.

3 knights died killing first Impi, two remaining knights died killing last Impi. My musketman was left to march into city, but I was a bit perturbed that it took all five Knights to win, so I reloaded. Entered combat again, EXACT SAME RESULT... and I mean exact down to the exact same number of HP's lost per unit and timing of the HP losses. Curiosity piqued, I reloaded again, to the EXCAST same result. I tried it twice more, all with EXACT same result.

So I reloaded once more and decided to WAIT one turn to attack. Advanced to next turn, saved game prior to attacking city and invaded. This time I only lost 1 knight and killed both Impi. Curious, I reloaded and tried again from this new save game with the Exact same result. 1 lost Knight to take city.

Since this, I've used this strategy to reduce the number of times the AI has killed my Destroyers / Battleships with Pinnacles/Galleys whatever by making alternate moves instead.

Cheating? Somewhat. But I only use when some absurdly outrageous combat outcome pops up like a boat lobbing wooden arrows sinking a modern steel-armored battleship with 20-inch cannons.

Yes, miracles happen in war, which is why I don't always reload, but sometimes it just grates on my nerves to see it. If the game's combat rolls were truly random and a reload resulted in a similar loss, but through different rolls/HP loss counts, I'd be much more willing to accept it as a "miracle" than where I sit now knowing that the rolls are NOT random, but pre-determined.

Ugh. Lazy programming.

Otherwise, a great game!

-WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR ORK!

	13-01-2002 23:25									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

noticed the same

	14-01-2002 00:34									#3
	Suffering from ads?

No, not 'lazy programming.' Intentional design decision so that people wouldn't reload the game any time they got a result they didn't like.

We each play games for our own reasons, so I will not judge you for your reloading. I recently reloaded when I found out that cancelling a peace treaty would have massive happiness affects (I happened into an alliance a few turns later).

If you don't like the way new units can get killed by old ones, there are plenty of threads as to how to change it. OTH, if you ever get behind in tech and are assaulted, you may regret the changes you make. (See Long Winded Changes: The Mod for Civ3 , or dig into the Civ3:Creation forum)

	14-01-2002 00:43									#4
	Remove this text

So what?

Fights are not one vs. one, but the result of the fight unit vs. unit within a turn, which lasts at least 1 year, mostly even more. Look in the near history, how the "inferior" Vietnameses spanked the high tech equipped US forces. Or the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan against the Russians. Yea I know, one had Russian, the other Western help, but that doesn't change the fact.

There has always existed a relatively simple tactic against every high tech attack. So try not to depend too much on technique, try a better tactic, protect your tanks (they are intended to be good attackers but bad defenders), especially the "wounded", and take your losses like a man.

	14-01-2002 01:00									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I find the most effective strategy against unreal combat results is building up large armies, because following the law of the big number (or whatever you anglo-saxon guys call it) it will happen once in 10 times, or maybe even once in 3 times.... but if you have a large army you will hardly notice the difference once a longbowman defeated a tank. you will have a laugh, not re-plan the whole invasion.

in Civ2, it is idfferent... for defense you got along well with small armies, since you could rly more on combat results. and those were verified with the relevant hitpont system.

	14-01-2002 03:26									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Ecthelion:

true
my city keep producing tanks like there was nothing else to do (which there isnt of course)
and keeping sending them over
some setbacks dont matter
in the end you are the winner

ata