15-01-2002 06:51									#1
	atrocity, orbital defense and satellite Support Apolyton

I know how to edit alpha.txt file to disable pollution.

How do I edit game rules so I could turn off atrocity, instead of voting repeal U.N. charter.

I am not sure which is the function key for satellite view, (F7, F8??)
anyway, when you press it, you can view Planet Alpha Centauri from space, and if satellites are built, there are little dots. What does this satellite view do anyway? just pretty views?

do you get to see orbital defense kill off incoming planet buster if there is one?

	15-01-2002 08:43									#2
	Support Apolyton

I know nothing about 'turning off' an atrocity.

I do know a thing or two about satelites.

When you engage in satelite warfare you get to see the 'orbital attack view'. I have always engaged my ODPs at random, and I always have a lousy kill ratio.

Some months ago, another poster suggested that the timing was key. He claimed that you had to wait until the enemy orbital was close, and that his technique yielded a great kill ratio. Unfortunately, (well, maybe fortunately ) I have not had it crop up in a game since this post, so I have not tested this. It would make some sense though, otherwise why have this screen?

The manual suggests that your ODP will take out an enemy sat 50% of the time and does not mention timing your kill.

If your ODP intercepts a nuke, you don't get taken to the satelite view. You don't even get a cool movie. Just a message. It is not even considered an atrocity to attempt but fail to nuke someone, so there isn't even sanctions against the offender.

	16-01-2002 06:27									#3
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how do you start a satellite warfare? in 1 year of gaming i've never fought in a satellite warefare

btw, "satellites" are those +1 energy, nutrients, minerals to all bases, right?

so in theory, if i have launched an orbital defense unit, go to orbital attack view, I will be able to kill other ppl's satellite. That is so cool I've got to try that.


ps. I used to think the Hives are great because of +1 industry in general production, until recently I tried the Santiago, its +2 morale, and commanding nexus, she rocks.

	16-01-2002 10:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I built a playtest scenario (Gaians versus University) each having some ten satellites.

It's on the SMAX platform.

You can download it and playtest it several times to put these theories into practice. It's a scenario, so use the *scenario* and *play scenario* game commands when loading.

Get it at Rynn's Gallery:

http://googlie2.tripod.com/rynnsgallery/id9.html

Enjoy

Googlie

	16-01-2002 10:51									#5
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so anyone else knows how do I edit game in order to disable atrocity?

	16-01-2002 11:13									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

You can disable the Base obliteration counting as an atrocity thru the alphax.txt rules:

see:

2600 ; Normal ending year for lowest 3 difficulty levels
2500 ; Normal ending year for highest 3 difficulty levels
1 ; If non-zero, obliterating a base counts as an atrocity
10 ; Size of base for subspace generator
6 ; Number of subspace generators needed

However I don't know of any way of disabling atrocities completely. They are covered in concepts.txt, and the relevant extraxt is:

#CONCEPT8
{Atrocities} comprise a set of particularly heinous acts forbidden under the
Unity mission's U.N. Charter. Simple Atrocities include use of nerve gas or
genetic warfare, nerve stapling of civilians, and attacks against civilian
populations (e.g. intentional obliteration of a base). Use of quasi-nuclear
devices such as Planet Busters is considered a Major Atrocity.
^
If you commit a Simple Atrocity, the other factions will likely impose
commerce sanctions for ten or more years, depriving you of all trade with your
Treaty and Pact partners. The faction against whom you committed the atrocity
will probably remain your sworn enemy forever.
^
If you commit a Major Atrocity, you will be expelled from the
$LINK and
all factions will pronounce $LINK against you.
^
Simple atrocities committed between factions of different species (i.e.,
the $LINK and humans) do not invoke the wrath of other faction leaders.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This suggests that they are hard-coded into the .exe program

G.

	16-01-2002 14:57									#7
	Got spare money?

ops, i forgot to mention i also knew to how to eliminate atrocity caused by base obliteration using alpha.txt

I have 6 or so orbital defense units, I really want to buster some of my annoying enemies.

if i can't find one, i guess i will just have to use cheats and give myself more energy credits so i can buy votes.

	17-01-2002 05:53									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

F#&$ cheating, just drop the things on yer enemies without repealing the charter. It's much more enjoyable when they get mad about it, declare vendetta, and you teach them the error of their ways by pounding them into the ground.

My rule of thumb is never attack an enemy that hasn't declared vendetta on me, be it by taking an act that causes a vendetta or by taking an act that doesn't but I think is an act of war. If an opponent does either, I squash them. This includes declaring vendetta because I dropped a nuke (especially when it's on their enemies too), encroaching upon my borders, moving CPs or Probes into my territory in while in a Pact, insulting me in a communication, and breathing on my GODD@MN PLANET. JUST WHO DO THESE OTHER FACTIONS THINK THEY ARE ANYWAY!

*takes a deep breath.*

Anyway, don't cheat. Just take the action and deal with the consequences. It can be a lot more fun, provided you find the possibility of dealing with 6 angry factions and overwhelming eco-damage response from planet fun.

	17-01-2002 20:59									#9
	Support Apolyton

I have only gotten I a satellite war once against Gain when I was the Spartans. I ended up losing that war since Gian was able to crank out the ODP's ALOT faster than I. She destroyed all of my ODP's first, the began knocking down my NMS, Sky labs and energy labs. I had six busters at the time and 4 ODP's. She had 6 ODP's, so I thought I would go for it. I knocked down 4 of her ODP with my 4. I then tried to nuke her. She stopped all of my nukes. She stopped my first 2 with her remaining 2 ODP pods defensive strikes, which I expected. She stopped my second 2 nukes by sacrificing her 2 remaining ODP, which surprised me, my last 2 nukes were stopped by here Fletthette Defense systems in her bases. &^$%&%! That I did not expected. This activity did not count as an atrocity, but she pretty much decided to swam my little continent after that with all her worms and military. Pretty much shut me down in a hurry.

Attachment: satbat_sm.gif
This has been downloaded 219 time(s).

	20-01-2002 19:19									#10
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haahahahahhahah it sounds exciting and frustrating.

is that a screenshot from the game?

	20-01-2002 20:30									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: I have only gotten I a satellite war once against Gain when I was the Spartans.

Never was able to shoot satellites from my favourite enemies. Is this a SMAX only feature, or is there a trick (in the satellite view, F6 or so)?

	21-01-2002 09:32									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by k.k.fly is that a screenshot from the game?

Thats the pic that shows up in the pop-up message box when you shoot a sat down, or one of yours get shot down.

	21-01-2002 09:39									#13
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus Never was able to shoot satellites from my favourite enemies. Is this a SMAX only feature, or is there a trick (in the satellite view, F6 or so)?

Its been soooo long since ive played smac I dont know know if it is only in smacx or not ....

To access to screen I use the F4 key and select the orbital view Icon, then hit the ATTACK! button, once you do that that you get the option to select which faction and which satellite.

Course if you have not achived the orbital spaceflight tech you cannot access that screen. Once you launch at least one sat yourself then you can see that screen, whether other factions have sats or not.

	22-01-2002 05:42									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have achieved space domination in my recent Thinker (second to hardest level) as the Hive on huge map of planet. I have 13 orbital defense pods, and 35 of +1 energy pods.

And used like 40 Busters and won the game.

Now onward to hardest level.

	22-01-2002 06:11									#15
	Got spare money?

You can have ODP wars in vanilla SMAC. But if you are playing against the AI it will be hard to coax the AI to build sats in either SMAC or SMACX.

Play badly. If you are going into the late game at tech parity with the AI or worse, you will have a greater chance of seeing AI sats launched.

	22-01-2002 11:01									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

While we are talking about sats, is there anything you need to do other than launch them to get Planet Buster protection from your ODPs? Also, what do the two numbers mean in the display.
? I launched 6 ODPs and it is listed as 6/6 while other sats seem to just have a single number-- I am assuming this is because I have not used the ODPs for anything and if an ODP is deployed the numbers might differ. If I used a satellite to kill someone's food satellite, would the numbers related to my ODP change?

	22-01-2002 21:31									#17
	Put an end to popups!

ODPs with the number of 6/6 means you have 6 undeployed ODP's as of the current turn. If you used ONE of your ODP's to shoot down a nuke or another satellite, the number would change to 5/6. Meaning you have 6 ODP, 5 of which can be used for offensive or defensive measures. Course, these numbers are refreshed for each turn. On your next turn, you should see 6/6 again.

	22-01-2002 21:48									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That makes sense thanks. I know how to attack a satellite but if all I want is PB defense then all I do is leave them as they are right? They will automatically deploy against incoming PBs without action on my part ??

	22-01-2002 21:53									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You got it, Flubber.

Personally I have had better luck passively intercepting PBs than when I actively try to shoot down enemy sats.

	22-01-2002 22:06									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Flubber I know how to attack a satellite but if all I want is PB defense then all I do is leave them as they are right? They will automatically deploy against incoming PBs without action on my part ??

ODP deploy automatically with a PB attack. If your situation was 0/6 with the ODP, I believe you get the option of whether or not you would like to sacrifice one of your ODP's to stop the PB, meaning you would lose one of your six ODP's.

What I'm not sure of, is whether or not this a guaranteed defense, or if it has a % applied to it like the fletchette defense systems.

What I have noticed though is if you combine your ODP's with a flettchete defensive system in each base, enemy chances of getting a nuke through to any of your bases are slim.

	22-01-2002 22:53									#21
	Remove this text

Thanks

I actually believe I recall the percentages. Every undeployed ODP has a 50% chance of stopping a PB. that would mean with 6 the chance of success of a single PB strike would be 1.56%. Apart from ODPs i believe the flechette also has a 50% chance of stopping a PB aimed within a certain number of squares of that base.

	22-01-2002 22:54									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Looks like genetic warfare is the next option then Is there a percentage chance for gene warfare to work or is it automatic as long as the city does not have a probe team? Of course in SP since the AI knows where all your units are getting a probe team in can be hard.

	02-02-2002 11:10									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Yxklyx Looks like genetic warfare is the next option then Is there a percentage chance for gene warfare to work or is it automatic as long as the city does not have a probe team? Of course in SP since the AI knows where all your units are getting a probe team in can be hard.

I think it works automatically as long as you can get a probe in, but the amount it kills varies. It goes from more than 85% of pop if the base has no gene defenses (various facilities and techs have this ability) to only a few if it has lots of defense. It's useful if the AI base has few defenses (Once in a playtest game I gave the Believers a 99 pop base with no gene defenses and attacked with a virus, and the pop went down to 16 ). If the enemy has no defenses use it instead of gas (as it also hits all the enemy units in a base), but if they have even a few defenses, bring on the gas pods!

Incidentally, if you sacrifice an ODP against a nuke it works automatically.

	02-02-2002 14:09									#24
	Tired of ads?

I think the entire concept of "nuclear warfare" is very well implemented into SMAC. It's just so damn realistic when compared to Civ2 or CTP. Both of these have LAME weapons of mass destruction and they simulate modern warfare VERY badly. Of course, weapons of mass destruction bring a challenge to game balance. However, they are crucial part of the modern warfare, so of course they are part of it in the future. The idea that your missile defence is always less than perfect and a fact that even few missiles can literally destroy the world is thrilling. Why hasn't anyone made a Cold War scenario?

I'm little sceptical about the Flechette Defence. I was always afraid it would unbalance the ICBM concept in the SMAX, giving an unfair defence against missiles. Haven't really tested this. What do you think, any experiences?

	02-02-2002 16:38									#25
	Tired of ads?

I hear that none of you had engaged in proper space warfare...

In my upcoming Ultramind mod (that I have been dragging sooo long), if you want space warfare, let the High Lords turtle (you will see who they are later, when I release it). They ICS hundreds of bases and start building ALL satellites (nothing else to do - they have free Death Arenas at every base ). I had to keep on building ODP to slow them down - they are the menace of the late game (their personnality is 0,1,0,1,0), but pretty easy to kill off early at start

Normal SMAC, I have never seem the AI build satellites except in scenarios. Even when I had SMAX nobody built not even an ODP, except if I messed with the text files and made custom factions.

I am personnaly no good at creating actual scenarios or maps but I am sure many other mod/scen/map makers (ie. Google, Tres... ) would be interested in a Cold War mod. BTW who would be USA and who would be USSR?

	02-02-2002 16:55									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: In my upcoming Ultramind mod ...

Yeah, I've been hearing some wild rumours about this mod. But you just keep us all waiting in anxiety

quote: BTW who would be USA and who would be USSR?

Make USA and USSR factions. Internet is full of material and, by the way, I've happened to make USSR faction which came out pretty fine. Clash of Capitalism and Socialism on Chiron, skip the in depth plot, just let the action begin. Would be interesting to play in MP