15-01-2002 12:14									#1
	I want to upgrade my computer. What should I get. Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Now that I know that the specs are Pentium II 300 with 64 megs or ram, I believe I need to upgrade so I may take advantage of using 32 races.

I have a 300 celeron with 124 megs of ram with a ATI 32meg Radeon video card.

What should I upgrade too or what I should really be asking is WHAT do I REALLY need to play with all the bells and wishtles ON?

Would you be able to answer that Stormhound, or Alen? I know what I have read but in this industry that is usually the bare minimum specs.

I am trying to save money just for this game other wise I wouldn't bother upgrading. The MOO series is MY FAVORITE Game series.

Please don't just say a 2 ghz computer since I dont have that much money. I will probably have about 300 to upgrade so any tips would be appreciated.

Davor

	15-01-2002 18:08									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I'd probably bump the speed up. It sounds like you have enough RAM, but I'd bump the speed up to about 800 MHz or so. (that's what my computer is).

	15-01-2002 19:11									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Actually, the specs were set so that the game should be just as playable on a machine with the minimum specs (when you think about it, it's the space battles and other graphic displays that take the most horsepower). We know about "industry minimums" too.

A faster motherboard wouldn't hurt things, and doubling your memory (especially at today's prices!) would probably help your overall system performance. You should be able to easily accomplish both for under $300. If you still have money left, I'd consider first how much more you can raise the memory. You'd be amazed at the effect it can have, as more memory means less page-swapping (which can really kill speed).

	15-01-2002 19:25									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Buy an AMD processor. Since its motherboards supports Duron, Athlon T-Bird And Athlon XP, you will be making a good investment in both the processor (wich you can see wich fits your budget) and the motherboard. Make sure you don't have any problem with the motherboard and the RAM you already have!

	15-01-2002 21:00									#5
	Put an end to popups!

How will faster computers benefit with this game? Better quality of graphics? Are there settings to take advantage of more powerful computers?

	15-01-2002 23:05									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The graphics will not be "better" with more powerful computers; there's one screen resolution and one graphics set. The space combat graphics are voxel-based (if you want to see some commentary on that, including some from Bill Fisher, see http://forums.delphiforums.com/mast...ages?msg=5823.1 for more on the topic).

Probably the biggest single thing a faster computer will get you is faster turn processing time. Since there are lots of numbers to be dealt with, then anything that speeds up your computer for processing will result in an improvement. I'm not sure how much of one (I'm not exactly there for the testing), but I suspect it'll be quite noticeable between the low-end system and a brand new P4 or AMD.

	16-01-2002 02:39									#7
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You have 2 options depend on your budget:
1. cheaper (around 100$):
Get a quicker processor (around Intel PII 800)
(check your motherboard, if it has a slot, you can get slot converter + a PII (maybe PIII). Check the motherboard user guide about max processor speed and compatibility)
+128 MB RAM
(most probably DIMM, you have to check in the MB user guide)


2. more expensive (200-300$):
new motherboard
(Check if your case is ATX compatible. If not, you have to buy a new case. I suggest to buy Athlon compatible motherboard, with DDR RAM slots.)
Athlon XP 1600+ or more
(depend on your budget)
256 MB DDR RAM

Any of the 2 suggestions help to enjoy any game a lot. Of course the second one will be a faster one.

I hope this help,

Blade

	16-01-2002 10:29									#8
	Thank you all for your advise Got spare money?

thanks again everyone. I believe there is a computer show coming here in April and will see what they have. They usually have good prices.

Unforntantly I live in Canada and my money is in Canadain funds. If I can save money, I will get a new mother board (mine can only go up to PII330) and a 1Ghz Prossesor, and 1Gig of ram. I can use the rest of my computer parts for the rest.


Again Thanks for your advise. It's apprceated.

Davor

	16-01-2002 16:51									#9
	Re: Thank you all for your advise Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Yolky If I can save money, I will get a new mother board (mine can only go up to PII330) and a 1Ghz Prossesor, and 1Gig of ram. I can use the rest of my computer parts for the rest.

By April, you probably already have the cheapest processor being a Duron at 1.2 GHz...
About the RAM, I rather have just 256 MB of Crucial 266 MHz CAS Latency 2.0 ns (or even 333MHZ, if it's out in April) than to have 1 GB of SD-RAM at 100 MHz, with a CAS of probably 3 or 4 nanoseconds. So you should check your motherbord very well with this subject in mind.

(Am I being a tech geek here? )

	16-01-2002 21:48									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Go to www.pricewatch.com.
Click on "Motherboard Combos"
Look for a nice (cheap) Duron combos ($95 - Duron 950 with cpu, fan).
Add a Case + Powersupply ($50+) + Memory ($50+).

Sammual

	17-01-2002 02:06									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I will sell you an HP4440 with a 333Mhz AMD chip, 64MB of RAM and "integrated" graphics and sound for $1500 American.

	17-01-2002 04:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Carver

did you add one zero too many?

for 1329 (1229 after rebate) you can get the following from dell

p4 1.7ghz
256mb ddr sdram
40bg hd
17in monitor
64mb Gforce 2mx
48x cd rom
modem
speakers
ms works

	17-01-2002 21:50									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Dell is way over priced. Go to Cyperpower get it with 19" for $999. A 333mH is worth about $200. In fact last summer I sold my 500 AMD for 200.00. My back up now is amd 900, probably could get 350 for it.

	18-01-2002 00:41									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I live in vancouver and this is a good site to get an idea of what stuff costs in bc. www.ncix.com

Anything over 256 megs of ram is really a waste, as at that point the bottle neck becomes other parts of your system. If you have a celeron now, the cheapest thing for you to do is buy the highest celeron your motherboard supports. That would be about a 700 which is $40 ? and get 256 or 124 more megs of ram. Keep that for a while then in 2 years just buy a whole new case.. Because even now its getting cheaper to buy a new system then to upgrade...

	17-02-2002 08:21									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Please don't just say a 2 ghz computer since I dont have that much money. I will probably have about 300 to upgrade so any tips would be appreciated.

quote: Unforntantly I live in Canada and my money is in Canadain funds. If I can save money, I will get a new mother board (mine can only go up to PII330) and a 1Ghz Prossesor, and 1Gig of ram. I can use the rest of my computer parts for the rest.

Scratch the gig of RAM. If you're running mainstream software, 256 will be fine (should save you a bit of money as well). The more demanding titles would be in the 384-512mb range. A gig is really way too much. On Windows 98, 95, or ME, you'll have stability issues going over 512 anyway...serious ones...so unless you've got XP and a real love and need for multi-tasking, stick with the 256-512 figure.

The 1GHz processor and 128/256 megs of extra RAM definitely shouldn't put you over $300, unless prices have really changed in the industry over the last four or five months.

quote: for 1329 (1229 after rebate) you can get the following from dell p4 1.7ghz 256mb ddr sdram 40bg hd 17in monitor 64mb Gforce 2mx 48x cd rom modem speakers ms works

Try to stay off the SDRAM, with Intel's processors it can be much much slower at times than RDRAM. Dell doesn't let you know this, of course, but in the worst case the type of RAM you buy to save a few bucks can actually bottleneck the processor to bits. Nothing you can't switch out manually via pricewatch.com or crucial after the sale, but might as well save yourself the trouble now if you've got the cash on hand and either buy AMD processors/RDRAM with Intel.

Then again, if you can live with SDRAM (and unless you crave the latest and greatest version of Quake or Doom, you'll probably be able to) it's all moot anyway...

	20-02-2002 21:50									#16
	Remove this text

I would go for a cheap high performing P4.

Check out a P4 1.6A (the one with 512kb cache). It will easy go up to 2.4GHz with the shipped cooler.

Then you should combine it with 256MB DDR-RAM (DDR333 is best). As someone mentioned earlier more is fairly supported by Windows.
A motherboard with SiS645 chipset.
I don't know what this will cost in Canada but here in Denmark (we have the highest taxes in the world) it is about 400$ so you should be able to get it some cheaper.

	20-02-2002 22:33									#17
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You don't know much about computers, do you Stercus? Because NO high-end processor is cheap! NONE! They're all rips-offs of your money, aimed to the lunatics that have money to spend in the supposed-state-of-the-art processors.

Stick with the Duron, Yolky!

	21-02-2002 03:51									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hey Yolky,I'll sell you(and post) my 8bit Atari 800XL(4.5mhz 6502processor) 64k RAM, 16k ROM, 5.25 inch Floppy Drive(with TurboDrive!) and 300+ excellent games(well ok maybe 30 are excellent) and two joysticks for £60.00(in $??)
Actually sorry i don't think i could bare to be without my 'wizard of wor' or 'joust'.......besides it's a museum piece you know.
I'm Afraid you'll just have to make do with your upgraded PC...sorry

	21-02-2002 19:08									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: You don't know much about computers, do you Stercus?

Was it an insult? Is the price incorrect or what?
I happens to know quite a lot about computers. That is why I even bothered replying here.

Since I cannot find a site as good as the Danish www.edbpriser.dk I cannot make a complete price.

But from Pricewatch's prices I would say <350$ for CPU, 256MB RAM (PC2400 - PC2100 Apacer/Crucial should easily go this far) and Motherboard. With 256MB PC2100 it should be able to build for about 300$ (as far as I can see).

This system really outperforms Athlon systems in Price/performance. If you want something not as expensive but not as good go for a Celeron 1GHz (Tualatin version) it can go up to 1,5GHz. But the price won't be much lower than the first I suggested.

If you have questions about the OC'ing just contact me and shall explain how to do it. It is very easy.

	21-02-2002 23:18									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Looks like we could have a little flame war in here!

But I don't want to take part in it.
If you really knew anything about PCs, you wouldn't even advise anything from Intel, even with its Northwood!

But since Yolky shouldn't spend any money with high-end processors, since he won't overclock, I recommend him this site:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020121/index.html

It's one of the world's most respected hardware site. I don't think anyone here will have the nerve to contest it...

	22-02-2002 03:25									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Looks like we could have a little flame war in here! But I don't want to take part in it.

Neither will I. I just recommended the best buy if you dare to OC. I have an Athlon so I cannot say that I am an Intel fanatic. I couldn't see that he mentioned "I will not OC" but if he won't it must be his problem.

I will not agree that he should go Duron. Athlon 1.4GHz is about the same price as Duron 1.3GHz - Athlon is much faster than the Duron. Athlon XP 1.4GHz (1600+) is not that much more expensive compared to the Athlon. These CPU will not be able to OC.

Motherboard for Athlon is definitely ECS K7S6A. It is very cheap but rock stable and really nice. You will not get some of the usual VIA problems (there will proberly come more bugs from VIA) and only the necessary stuff is on the board.

Low-end CPUs are not a good choice unless you can OC them about 1.5x.

	22-02-2002 10:36									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks you all for all your tips. I still havn't got the money yet to upgrade but since now that its been delayed till the 2nd Q I might be in luck for later.

From reading the tips I now know not to get ONE GIG of RAM. I thought the more the better but after reading some posts I will just get 256.

I just wish 300mghz would be enough since I jumped up and down when I got it but boy did it become a dinosaur really fast.

Davor

	23-02-2002 16:25									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sorry, wrong thread...

	23-02-2002 17:59									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: just wish 300mghz would be enough

300PHz (as it also is shortened) should be enough ;-)

If I was you I would ask again when you are about to buy a new PC.

	24-02-2002 00:25									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: From reading the tips I now know not to get ONE GIG of RAM. I thought the more the better but after reading some posts I will just get 256.

Just remember that if you need more, you can always buy some for around $30 extra and install it from crucial or pricewatch.com. For the future (2003), you'd probably be safer going the 512 RAM route if you've got the cash on hand. If not, just wait and upgrade later.

quote: I just wish 300mghz would be enough since I jumped up and down when I got it but boy did it become a dinosaur really fast.

What Stercus said: for your next purchase, be sure to check by here and get some extra opinions for what exactly you should buy in terms of processor speed, RAM totals, etc. The market changes very quickly, and it's not uncommon to be on top of it one day and have a "dinosaur" so to speak the next.

Although 300 MHz is fine for most older games and almost all everyday tasks aside from rendering and the like.

Oh, one more thing: another important consideration, aside from the processor and RAM count, is the video card...that's a market that changes verry quickly. Definitely get some opinions here before buying a new computer as far as that's concerned.

	24-02-2002 22:51									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

As to video cards, Geforce2 are now cheap and will do for anything, except a few effects in dam few games. I got a Geforce 3 when they came out and it did nothing for any of my games that the Geforce 2 could not do. With Geforce 4 coming, the others will be going down in price.

	25-02-2002 05:13									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Hey Yolky,I'll sell you(and post) my 8bit Atari 800XL(4.5mhz 6502processor) 64k RAM, 16k ROM, 5.25 inch Floppy Drive(with TurboDrive!) and 300+ excellent games(well ok maybe 30 are excellent) and two joysticks for £60.00(in $??)

Bah. That's nothing. I still have my Atari 400, 16K Ram and with a cassette tape loader! Worth much more as a museum piece than your newfangled gadjet...

	26-02-2002 02:50									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ravagon,
If only i hadn't used my ZX81 as a coffee mat
Ahhhh....those days of typing out 1k games cause i didn't have a storage device!!!!

P.S.Sorry for this hijack Yolky - i couldn't resist

Last edited by child of Thor on 26-02-2002 at 02:57

	26-02-2002 08:05									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It's nice to see some of my contemporaries posting here. Waiting for that cassette drive to load a program, my friends and I would often start playing ball and forget completely about the whole thing.